Support Team Shaun_E Posted October 31, 2005 Support Team Share Posted October 31, 2005 Had problems getting my new 1.9K started - its obviously higher compression than the 1.6 it replaces but not ludicrously high. The starter motor turns over, but very slowly - we tried a brand new fully charged Banner in place of the Red Top 15 but that didn't make any difference. Surpisingly it is much easier to start when warm. Jump starting works fine. Will a new starter be likely to solve the problem? Is there much difference in the power of starter motors? If so which are the most powerful? Is there a possibility that it is the wiring? If so what should I check? The car has recently had a Caterham battery master switch fitted with all new cabling as supplied in their kit. Obviously I have seen recommendations for Brise but what are the alternatives? Is the Caterham race starter up to the job? If I am going to replace it then it needs to be done quickly so long lead time suppliers are no good for me. Yellow SL #32 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 a newly built engine can challenge the starter motor for the first couple of hundred miles . If your running it in I would suggest you carry a battery booster pack thingy in case you stall at the lights 😳 I would wait a little while an loosen the engine up C7 TOP Powered by Hellier Performance 😬 South Wales AO Edited by - Dave Jackson on 31 Oct 2005 13:27:23 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Carmichael Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 If you want to sort this out for good, the race starter from caterham runs at 1.4kW and will turn anything over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beelzebub Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 Do a search under Brise here Had the same after last winters re-build. The Marelli unit would'nt spin the engine fast enough for it to catch. Not cheap but I've had no problems with the Brise unit since fitting 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 Not cheap but I've had no problems with the Brise unit since fitting I have... ...but on stripping the car down this w/e, I found that the nut on the main 'live' terminal wasn't tight, so I'm hoping it was just a poor connection. Can't see what else it could be as the battery is a socking-great PC680 Odyssey, and it always appeared to have a full-charge - the alternator-output was slightly marginal too, and as this passed through the same connection... Definitely worth checking the wiring... Project Scope-Creep is live... Alcester Racing 7's Equipe - 🙆🏻™ Alcester-Racing-Sevens.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave McCulloch Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 Shaun I'm in the same boat as you - new 1900K which I drove for the first time on Saturday. The first start up required jump leads, and it had probably 45 minutes running at fast idle and idle before being driven. Mine's now the other way round to yours though - it will start under its own steam from cold, but will not turn over when hot without a jump start - when it then spins over easily. Only done 30 miles so far, so hopefully it will loosen up, though my battery is c.5 yrs old. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 Dave Mc - maybe too much ignition advance ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Support Team Shaun_E Posted October 31, 2005 Author Support Team Share Posted October 31, 2005 I'm going to try and start it tonight so we'll see how it goes. I hope it is just becasue it's new, although turning by hand it doesn't seem tight. As it starts better when warm I've just got to not stall it in the first few miles . Have to look at one of those battery boosters just in case. If it doesn't get easier over the next few days then I'll replace the starter either with a Caterham race one or a Brise. Yellow SL #32 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Normans_Ghost Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 Myles, Brize had a problem with some starter where the crimped internal wire had high resistance and/or came away altogether. I think they soldered them to cure. Mine went back twice but seems OK now. Norman Verona, 1989 BDR 220bhp, Reg: B16BDR, Mem No 2166, the full story here You and your seven to The French Blatting Company Limited Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmar Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 Shaun - if you need the loan on a brise - let me know, it is virtually brand new as well my engine isn't connected up and in various bits, so taking the starter off would be just a 5 min job let me know rob My MSN Space and Blog - Syndicate Using RSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 It's a tad more than 5-mins if you've got a Magneton... ...the stud needs to be moved (and shortened IMHO) from the top to the bottom position. No big deal, but... Project Scope-Creep is live... Alcester Racing 7's Equipe - 🙆🏻™ Alcester-Racing-Sevens.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmar Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 I did only say to take off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caterhamnut Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 Shaun - just posted in your '1.9 is born' thread - keep it all in one mate!! ....when we briefly ran an Emerald around the time of the wedding we had exactly the same issue - we bought the 1.4kw 'geared' started from Caterham under Peter's advice, and it solved the slow cranking/Emerald issue straight away. Never been any issue since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Support Team Shaun_E Posted October 31, 2005 Author Support Team Share Posted October 31, 2005 Rob - thanks for the offer. I'll see how things go for a few days but if no improvement then I'd like to take you up on that - will at least let me know if it definitely is the starter. Yellow SL #32 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave McCulloch Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 @ Dave J - How much ignition advance should I have? I assume this is the cranking advance at the bottom of the ignition advance tab? Ta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmar Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 Shaun - np, I will see if I can get it out anyway, and wecan arrange a midday pickup, am just down te m4 from you rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Bees Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 4 deg. works for me, though some folks use as little as 0. It doesn't seem to be super-critical. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 0>4 depends what the engine likes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave McCulloch Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 Thanks. I seem to remember it's set at the default 5. Presume this manifests itself only a hot engine as combustion is slower in a cold engine? Dave ps Shaun, sorry for going O/T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Carmichael Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 5 degrees is not going to be significant enough difference from 0-4 to give any trouble. As long as it isn't 15 degrees you'll be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 We had a Taxi in a few years ago for a new battery and the driver complained that it too was faulty, he demonstrated this to me and it sounded like a flat battery so we replaced it even though under a load test it was fine. The second battery did the same and the third. I then did a starter motor test and found this to be the problem, the main power feed to the starter was removed,sanded and replaced, end of problem. Still working. A conection may look and feel tight but this does not make it a good conductor but it may improve when hot and get worse when cold. X/FLOW 1700 DD 1990 ROAD USE ONLY..SO FAR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Support Team Shaun_E Posted November 1, 2005 Author Support Team Share Posted November 1, 2005 Started the car last night OK so went for a drive. Took a risk and turned the engine off when I stopped at a friends but couldn't restart it. It jump started OK for me to get back home. Seems that the first start drains the battery so much that it would take more than the few miles I did to recharge. I phoned Caterham today to get the race starter and they said I should speak to engineering before purchasing as they weren't sure it would fit a pre 2000 car - they thought it would foul on the exhaust. I'm still waiting for them to call me back. The person I spoke to in parts thought that my 4-1 competition exhaust was possibly the only one it would fit with. Can anyone confirm this one way or the other. Are there any fitting issues with the Brise? I don't want to be attacking the block with an angle grinder - it's a non Caterham block so has already been fettled so that the present starter fits. Yellow SL #32 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Carmichael Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 The 4-1 may need some fettling (bashing, if you're Angus). There are no guarantees that the block won't need a bit more clearance. It is usually the web closest to the flywheel that gets in the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 My block was originally a non-7 item, so we had to grind to get a standard starter on there. When I fitted the Brise, I spent *ages* working away gently at the webbing and side of the block - the Brise *seemed* to be fouling and certainly didn't want to fit properly. I even tried grinding the Brise in a couple of places... I eventually worked out that it wasn't the side of the block, it was the sticky-outy bit that the bellhousing attaches to (near where the dowels are) that was causing the problem - it took about 3 minutes to grind the sharp corner off this bit of the 'block' and all was well... Project Scope-Creep is live... Alcester Racing 7's Equipe - 🙆🏻™ Alcester-Racing-Sevens.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Support Team Shaun_E Posted November 1, 2005 Author Support Team Share Posted November 1, 2005 Caterham technical say it will fit - do we believe them 🤔 I'll order it now and hope it doens't need too much fettling of either block or exhaust. Thanks for you help folks. Yellow SL #32 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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