Beelzebub Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 I've been throught the archives to research this & if I'm not mistaken I've got three choices with which to replace the original Marelli unit. 1; Magneton from..........Err Magneton for 85 nicker delivered. 2; Caterham race starter circa £250.00 plus delivery plus VAT 3; Brise unit which comes in at a similar price to the CC unit. I've got to take into account that my primaries (EBD) run close to the starter location. I've got them lagged but thier proximity to the starter is'nt going to help matters. I'm also going to knock up an aluminium heat shield to try & deflect some of the heat radiated from the primaries. Looking at the disparity in the prices I'm tempted by the Magneton unit. Opinions please. TIA Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 If you purchase a Brise unit you can mount it in any rotation, just ask for a non drilled adapter. Carbon Components from K9 Composites Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 Didn't realise the Magneton was so cheap - makes the £27 for a new solenoid (from them - didn't cure the problem) look a bit expensive... I'm on the verge of phoning Brise having had a mound of trouble over the 1000+ miles Tour7 Haggis3 blast this w/e. Project Scope-Creep is live... Alcester Racing 7's Equipe - 🙆🏻™ Alcester-Racing-Sevens.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beelzebub Posted May 24, 2005 Author Share Posted May 24, 2005 Myles I'm on the verge of phoning Brise having had a mound of trouble over the 1000+ miles Tour7 Haggis3 blast this w/e. I'm assuming you're refering to starter problems ? Care to elaborate ? Which starter do you have ? TIA Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 Sorry - yes, that could be read the wrong-way. I've got a Magneton that has been giving more and more grief - quite often, I can't even get it to trigger from cold... I've replaced the solenoid (no change), FIA-to-starter big-red-lead (no change), battery (for an Odyssey - no change) and have agreed to buy a s/h FIA switch from Trevor as this might be a weak point. Oh, and I've had the relay-mod for over a year - it made a difference initially, but then stopped being effective. ...sooooo, I'm on the verge of phoning Brise to *order* one of theirs - what's stopping me (obviously - the price) is that I'm also of the opinion that there have got to be alignment issues in play - rocking the car helps most/some of the time (eventually), and my problems did get a whole-lot worse when I fitted the current engine (with the same starter, but a new R500 flywheel). I've fiddled and fettled and not made any progress though... ☹️ Project Scope-Creep is live... Alcester Racing 7's Equipe - 🙆🏻™ Alcester-Racing-Sevens.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beelzebub Posted May 24, 2005 Author Share Posted May 24, 2005 Myles. I'm going to hi-jack my own thread here. Have you tried putting your voltmeter across the terminals of your big red switch whilst cranking ? If there's any internal resistance you'll get a reading IE the voltage drop (potential difference) across the terminals. Might be something to try prior to replacing it. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulo Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 Brise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beelzebub Posted May 24, 2005 Author Share Posted May 24, 2005 Paulo. I'd give Brise *thumbup* But I can buy 3 & a half starters from Magneton for the same money. Brise geared starters have'nt been without thier difficulties. However they're V. helpfull as I found out when I bought my DS tank 😬 D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulo Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 Been there done that, you'll cook as many magneton starters as you fit, I tried wiring fixes, heat shields rebuilt solenoids none of this worked. I swallowed the bitter pill and bought a Brise, no problems, even on the new flywheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 Would not bother with the cheaper versions. Brise I have never been let down with one yet. 😬 Carbon Components from K9 Composites Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beelzebub Posted May 24, 2005 Author Share Posted May 24, 2005 Looks like I'll be swallowing "the bitter pill" ☹️ Just spoke to Tim @ Brise. £249.00 delivered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulo Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 Davesport, You may have to grind a bit of one of the lugs behind the starter to get the brise to sit straight, they are much meatier than the magneton job. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 Davesport, Did you ask for a discount? Is that £249 including theft and teleportation? DT's price (and the Brise website) says £249 *plus* theft etc. - but at least you can get 10% (ish) discount from Dave Kimberley (sic?) at DT.... Lemme know 'cos I'd like to phone them this afternoon. Project Scope-Creep is live... Alcester Racing 7's Equipe - 🙆🏻™ Alcester-Racing-Sevens.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbutnotslow Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 Dave/Myles, I was at Brise recently with my magnetron starter as I was having difficulties with starting as you know. They fitted a new solenoid to my magnetron and did some bench tests. It was putting out 30 nm or torque, which they said, was excellent. They tested the whole thing and pronounced it A1. Seems that the distance that the starter is away from the ring gear is important and should be around 7 mm as a minimum otherwise you can get balking which sounds like the dreaded click. Whilst there I did a deal for a friend who bought the current K specific starter 9522 (which has a separate solenoid as per the magnetron but looks a bit different to the one on the website - I can send you a picture if you want)and a race alternator. I understand that he was having all sorts of problems getting it to fit though. However I dont know how he has gone on. I did manage to get some discount for him by the way. HOWEVER, Tim B said that there would be a new K specific starter that uses an integral solenoid, being released in 2 to 3 months. Tim said that this would be a complete cure to the problem. No more expensive by the way. It may be worth hanging on if you could. Have a word with them and see what they say. Dave look at my site for pics of my heat shield. Remember that you can unbolt the front plate from the magnetron and move it around so that the solenoid sits below the starter motor as opposed to above it. This alone makes quite a difference to the heat soak from the primaries. Regards Grant 😬 183 BHP of black and stone chip excitement. 😬 here Edited by - oldbutnotslow on 24 May 2005 15:45:26 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casbar Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 Does fitting the Brise unit, does stop all the starting issues I thought I read a thread a while back, where someone fitted a Brise unit, but still expierienced issues! Does the Brise unit fit, with the 4:2:1 primaries, that virtually touch the standard starter (VHPD exhaust I believe) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 Seems that the distance that the starter is away from the ring gear is important and should be around 7 mm as a minimum otherwise you can get balking which sounds like the dreaded click. Hmm - how do you measure this? ...and your comments seem to suggest that the current version could be prone to heat-problems over time... I'll call Tim and discuss. Project Scope-Creep is live... Alcester Racing 7's Equipe - 🙆🏻™ Alcester-Racing-Sevens.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Normans_Ghost Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 I've got a Brise unit. I've had a problem with them due to prime manufacturing defects. BUT Brise have sent a replacement out overnight - no questions or hassle. Thsts what makes the difference. Things go wrong, it's the way it's dealt with that makes one a loyal customer - or not. If you have the K click a new starter will not solve the problem if the solonoid wire is cooked. The wire, as fitted by CC, is very close to No 4 exhaust branch. I've cut this wire back and spliced in a heavier gauge wire routed down the back of the starter away from the exhaust. On those I've done at Le Mans there was 6v getting to the starter terminal. When the insulation was cut back the wire inside was burnt and blackened and just crumbled. The amazing thing was how it got 6v along it. I wish someone who's had this mod would report on it's long term effect. Norman Verona, 1989 BDR 220bhp, Reg: B16BDR, Mem No 2166, the full story here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 I forgot to add that I'd changed the thin wire to the solenoid... ...you guessed it - no effect (for me) ☹️ Project Scope-Creep is live... Alcester Racing 7's Equipe - 🙆🏻™ Alcester-Racing-Sevens.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beelzebub Posted May 24, 2005 Author Share Posted May 24, 2005 Bullet is bitten ☹️ Myles. Spoke with Tim Brise & he quoted me £249.00 to the door. This was minus his discount but inc VAT & delivery. I asked him twice about the price & made sure he repeated it to me. Paulo. Thanks for the tip Contact Information Brise Auto-Electrical Systems 119 Dartford Rd Dartford KENT DA1 3EN Email: tim@brise.co.uk Tel: 01322 277622 Fax: 01322 277623 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 Another bullet-bitten. FWIW: Price is £249 less 10% discount + theft and delivery - so £275 to the door. The axial one is expected in around 6ish weeks and will be cheaper (around £40ish) and has been designed for this specific application - *but* it has not been tried and tested in the 7 (cos it's brand-new) and also is *not* a gear-reduction jobby (not an issue for me - but those with high-comp engines might suffer). Sooo, being as I'm impatient, I've ordered one. They're waiting for the CNC brackets to turn up, so they won't be out of the door until next week. Project Scope-Creep is live... Alcester Racing 7's Equipe - 🙆🏻™ Alcester-Racing-Sevens.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbutnotslow Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 You put bluetak on the end of the pinion and mount up. It should compress so you can measure the length roughly. Grant 😬 183 BHP of black and stone chip excitement. 😬 here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beelzebub Posted May 24, 2005 Author Share Posted May 24, 2005 Don't wish to stir up a hornets nest................ But I'm just off the blower to Brise again. 10 % discount.....I managed 15% without to much of a struggle. £249.00 to the door & it's on it's way 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 Git *How* did you manage 15%? You can mail me off-list if you want Project Scope-Creep is live... Alcester Racing 7's Equipe - 🙆🏻™ Alcester-Racing-Sevens.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Mill Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 Does anyone know anything about this starter? http://hometown.aol.com/martingf/Lotus.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beelzebub Posted May 24, 2005 Author Share Posted May 24, 2005 Myles YHM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now