Gridgway

Following the video, took it apart and it all looks fine. Put it back together and still not doing any pumping. Makes the right sort of noise, but no suck or blow. Here's the vid

The next stage of getting my BDR to start is to get fuel safely to the engine from the fuel tank. After quite some faffing, I have concluded that my gold coloured Facet cylindrical pump does not work. I have bench tested it. It makes the right noise but doesn't pump anything. There's a youtube video showing one being serviced with a repait kit, but I can't find a repair kit on the internet. I guess I'll take it apart and see what's what. Any knowledge here would be great. And to the cautionary tale. The pipework is braided rubber hose from tank to pump and from pump to the front. They do say the problem is that with braided hose, you can't see the condition of the rubber. Well whoever "they" happen to be, they are completely correct. With the braid removed...

A quick update, (trying to keep my ignition threads seperate), I have spoken to H&H and we have concluded that I'll send them all the bits and they will diagnose and repair accordingly. They can also check the advance being correct for the engine/cam/carb combination. Will obviously take a while, but should solve the problem. I'll be interested to see what they find!

Sorry, xflow

Thanks Andrew, the only other distributor I have worked on did have vacuum advance, but I thought the movement of the baseplate was the mechanical advance. It was a very long time ago indeed! Just had a quick look and yes the shaft at the bottom moves in relation to the shaft at the top. I'm definitely enjoying learning stuff. Mind you, I think I should have known this from my youth!

Thanks all for the info, interesting on the megajolt there Oily. It may be that my BDR ends up on ITBs through the refurb project. Depends a bit on what I do with the engine. Not sure what's in it and whether it needs a refresh. If it does, I'll probably spend on it for more revs and go ITBs. What I should do is just get what I have working without upgraditis!

Thanks Paul, so you know what mapped ignition they used? And agree, the idea of setting up vacuum is not that appealing

Excellent, thanks Andrew, very useful. ETA looks like they repair stuff too, so could be the immediate answer to the no sparks issue!

In parallel to my efforts to get sparks for my BDR and in contemplating what to do if I can't get the Lucas ignition to work, I'm wondering how much control I need of the ignition advance curve? Few of the aftermarket units (Lumenition etc) seem to give any control. I assume its linear advance from about 1,000 rpm to a max at somewhere like 3,500 rpm of something like 35 degrees advance? Something like the 123ignition allows either pre-selected maps or you can build a map based on vacuum and revs (3D presumably). Anyone got any experience or views? Thanks!

I have changed starter motors on both 7s for high torque pre-engaged types. So I have two Lucas LRS100 inertia types that are surplus to requirements - 10 teeth, I had them both tested by Burghfield starter motors who said they are in spec with no signs of wear. But I've found they are not quite up to it for high compression motors. I don't really know on price, they look to be £80-£100 new on ebay (assuming they are genuine Lucas ones). So asking £30 each. Would much prefer not to have to ship, but if needed I will do it at cost.

One of the areas I'd not contemplated in my thoughts so far is the ignition advance. As far as I can see, the Lucas dizzy is completely locked. It doesn't have any vacuum advance and the base plate is locked with no movement as far as I can see. That would mean that the HEI module must be doing rev related advance. I can't find any reference to it though in all the reading I have done. I guess if I ever get it running, I'll be able to check the advance at various revs with my timing gun. I must admit that my thoughts are moving to change it out as I'm not sure of my next move to get it going!

#30 thanks for the references, I'll look them up. There isn't a massive difference for the coil. You need a low resistance primary winding to get the highest current to "charge" the coil as quickly as possible. That then has the possibility to overheat easily. The HEI system though does dwell control to use shorter bursts of higher current without overheating the coil (or itselft). So a regular coil (for points) will have 3+ ohms maxing at 4 amps. Also a ballast resistor is used to stop long periods of high currents with the ignition on and not running (for example). The HEI system produces constant energy sparks across the rev range with the dwell control, but it needs a coil with a resistance of 1 ohm or less to do it. That's the main difference. Also the coil construction might be optimised to manage heat from the higher currents as well

#11 I meant exactly that. Overall Hammerite is not long lasting in road conditions and seems to come off even without stone chips. Just my experience. I do like POR-15 but it doesn't have a long shelf life and relatively expensive. But it really lasts the course.

That's the waveform for a reluctor I believe. Definitely AC, but not a sin wave. So my calcs about peak voltage up the way won't be quite right, but still good enough I reckon. That's now my favourite for being faulty. Hoepfully we'll see soon.

Hammerite always seems a bit useless to me. Not long lasting at all. The other two suggestions seem good though

Ooooo, I never knew that. You don't come across many things proportional to the 4th power!

It's possible and possibly probable(!) that the centre machining is just to locate and the weld is only intended to be at the edge for a certain depth in. Right in the middle there will be no heat from friction, a bit like an instantaneous centre of revolution. I definitely don't think it's a one-off bodge job, but a failure of the welding process somehow.

Having seen quite a lot of friction welding on youtube (it thinks I like watching it and it may be right!), that thought crossed my mind, seeing the machined shape at the end.

I think I'm even boring myself now, but here goes. This evening I made some diagnostic progress. I re-did the "get a spark out of a coil" test on the bench with a spare 12v battery, spare coil, plug lead and spark plug and some wires. Easy that got a spark, So I repeated the same test in the car with the coil in the car and battery. Lo and behold a spark. The coil works. Then just a quick check with the same king lead wiring (well it was better earthing that did the trick), plus the ignition box and the dizzy driven from my drill (circa 500 rpm). Nothing. I also used a pin to properly check the continuity of the squished wires from the dizzy, all good. Then from my readings linked above and this link I got the old ign module and did the voltage measurement which gave 1v. That's none of the readings in the link (being 1.25v, 0.77v or 0v). But I took it as a sign that the module may have life. Then buoyed by my success I thought I would apply a voltage to the input, using an LED as my pretend coil. This is noting from above that 1.64v or similar might be the coil turn on voltage. I used a 1.5v battery. Imagine my surprise when the module turned on the LED pretend coil. I said oh my! So the 1.5v might be above the switch-on voltage, but the 1,5v plus the 1v bias voltage definitely is. So I think the ignition module might be working. In a fit of pique, I then connected up the dizzy in place of the 1.5v battery, turned it with my drill and nothing happened The signs point to the reluctor gubbins in the dizzie. As it happens, a friend is chucking out the same setup from his formula Atlantic race car (in favour of lumenition). So I should be able to get his cast off reluctor gubbins and AB14 module. We know his works, just not very well at high revs. The temptation just to buy a Lumenition is quite big, but I want to get the Lucas setup working as a matter of challenge! i'm certainly learning a lot!

I question for jbcollier, you mentioned the figure of 2v AC from the reluctor when cranking. I only managed to get 0.1v AC from my new multi-meter (turning the dizzy with my battery electric drill which I think is faster than cranking speed). Reading on the internet about one specific version of the 4 pin module here, it says that the module will provide a bias voltage of an amount just below the turn off voltage, ie just under 1.43v. But the turn on voltage is 1.64v. So the 0.1vac measured on my meter, assuming that is the RMS voltage will give a peak voltage of root 2 times that = 0.14v. So, assuming the bias voltage is 1.4v, the resulting signal voltage will vary between about 1.54v and 1.26v, so the coil will never get turned on, no spark will result. I've probably just written and load of old nonsense from 45 years ago mis-remembered A level physics!

How strange, I wasn't expecting to see a machined fitting

All questions are good questions! I'm actually using a spare battery as the one in the car was completely dead. It charges and has 13+ volts. But I could try a different one. the +v are definitely getting to the coil and the AB14 box is earthed. I've done the earths (including removing the cut-off switch which is between the -ve side of the battery and earth(. With the dizzie out and being turned using my drill (the right way, I've triple checked) I earthed it using a big fat jump lead. I will recheck that the body of the HEI module has a sound earth. The heat conducting paste that came with the new module looked very much like silicon grease to me which I think is an electrical insulator and the bolts that hold the HEI module into the AB14 casing provide the earth. I'm sure they will be doing that, but it's worth double checking. Not come up with anything else to check yet.

Quick update. I got the new HEI ignition module from ebay and after some fettling fitted it to the AB14 module. I still have the dizzie out so I can spin it with my electric drill. Fitted it back in the car to be the easiest way to test it. I've got an LED that I can out in place of the coil, didn't flash. Then I attached the coil trying to generate a spark from the king lead, nothing. So need to have think. The new HEI module from ebay could be duff, or the issue lies somewhere else. Only four elements. The AB14 (HEI module, capacitor, zener diode) distributor, coil and king lead. How hard can it be? Getting close to buying a new electronic ignition! I have tried a different coil and a different king lead. I think I know the distributor generates AC volts. Two unknowns are really the AB14 and my test method.

I had a feeling that once you had put SRF in then you needed to keep to it and not go back to plain Dot 4. Doesn;t sound right as I'm saying it though

I've never felt uncomfortable with touring in a 6 speed k-series. I made my tongue in cheek comments earlier, but I always wear hearing protection so don't get troubled by the noise of the engine as the higher revs. Drove to Barcelona and back and due to some other travel challenges, did a lot of it on motorways and was fine. Never even considered it a problem. But others feel differently I know.