Some general DS questions

[stephen grant]

I have a Roadsport 'A' with a wet sump (yes, there were some wet sumped back in 1998). All i've done to it in terms of upgrades is verniers + the 52mm TB, so I guess i've got about 140bhpish. I aim to do 4-6 track days a year (although so far i've got nowhere near that).

 

1. Should I be thinking about converting to dry sump, or is this not worth it for this spec engine? I would eventually like to head towards 160-170bhp - I assume at this point I really should be dry sumped?

 

2. If I should be thinking about dry sump, are there any particular advantages/disadvantages with the various options out there?

 

3. All the threads I've seen on dry sumping seem to involve a suprising amount of DIY in siting all the various components. Am I right in thinking that each install is fairly bespoke and it's a question of moving everything about, phoning around for adaptors, etc., etc.? How feasible is all this for the average numpty? I've got the shortened passenger footwell with the battery behind it, if that makes it easier or harder.

 

4. Do I take it that the Apollo becomes redundant with a DS installed?

 

5. Someone told me that DS Kits sometimes come up for sale secondhand because one of the race series (Inters?) don't allow them. Are either/both parts to this sentence true?

 

 

Thanks for any advice

 

stephen

 

 

Edited by - stephen grant on 20 Apr 2006 12:26:40

 

Edited by - stephen grant on 20 Apr 2006 12:27:20

[shn7]

Stephen,

 

I think the decision should be based one two things:

1. What tyres are you using and hence what cornering loads are you applying to the oil in the engine/sump. Sticky tyres will allow greater G loadings and thus a greater likelihood that you will leave the oil pickup pipe in the sump breathing air rather than oil.

2. Insurance - Look on a DS as an insurance policy against having to pay for a rebuild.

 

I don't think that power output really comes into it. Certainly not at the levels you're talking about. Plenty of original SLR's were built without a DS.

 

I know of two routes to go DS, CC or Pace. Using a CC route (either belltankhousing or separate DS tank) will mean that if you want to sell the car back to CC they'll take it back. Using a non CC setup would probably preclude this option.

 

As to how much fiddling about there is. Well again if you go the CC route you should get everything you need included in the kit.

 

No need for an apollo if DS installed although I know some R500 were set up with both.

 

Second hand hens teeth are probably only slightly less common 😬

 

Steve.

[John Howe]

The dry sump system is there to protect the engine from centrifugal force starving it of an oil supply on long right hand bends - the oil pick up is on the right. It also removes the problem of windage...

 

The Caterham system is tried and proven, albeit over priced and the compromise may well be their discounted version that does not require the engine to be removed to replace the bellhousing (which on their dry sump system is also doubling for an oil tank) but instead uses a separate oil tank.

 

Retaining the Apollo has the advantage of also giving you great oil capacity

 

JH

Deliveries by Saffron, the yellow 230bhp Sausage delivery machine

[stephen grant]

 

ok - thank you both

 

stephen

 

[Shaun_E]

Fitting the Caterham system with bellhousing tank is an engine out job but you get everything you need in the kit, there is no fettling required - it is just bolt on. Usual caveats about Caterham's written instructions and missing parts apply, but in general it is a straightforward job.

DO NOT use anything other than Loctite Anaerobic sealants to seal the sump to the block. Silicone or Hylomar will get in the sump and block the oil pickup - I know from personal experience as well as that of a number of others.

I removed and sold my Apollo to offset some of the cost of the DS - you could keep it for extra oil capacity but I don't believe it is necessary. The new DS bellhousing tanks have a swirl tower on them that goes someway to de-aerating the oil but to be honest I don't think aeration is a massive problem on a DS engine.

 

Yellow SL #32

[paulyb]

OK - so following on from an interesting discussion with PC at the last Sarf London meet - what exactly is the advantage of increased oil capacity over and above the amount in the CC DS which is clearly enough to keep the engine lubricated 🤔

As long as the oil pick up is immersed then an adequate amount of oil is getting into the engine - assuming pumps...etc all in order

[Shaun_E]

I can only think of one of possible adantage of having a greater oil capacity: should the scavenge pump belt break you will have more time to shut down before the oil in the tank runs out. This only works with the Caterham system that keeps the internal pressure pump and assumes you have some warning device to tell you the belt has broken.

 

 

Yellow SL #32