Mick Day Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 Just realised that I may need an uprated starter for my new engine. I currently have the Magneton starter ( 443.115.141.380., 12v, 1 KW, Made in Czech Republic) supplied by Brise. Will this be OK? What have others fitted? Needs to fit under a Caterham 4:2:1 manifold. Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevsta Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 Would you need it to be that uprated? Surely it's only fitting the compression ratio? Mick, as I organised the BB of your DS...I think when I am next down seeing the in-laws I might have to come for a ride in your 1900 beast!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Support Team Shaun_E Posted March 22, 2006 Support Team Share Posted March 22, 2006 My old Magnetti Marelli was not up to the job of turning over my 1.9K but is now doing stirling service on another car. I fitted the race starter from Caterham but it wouldn't fit under my old 4-1 exhaust so I bought the 4-2-1 from Caterham and there is loads of clearance. Be warned, they changed the design of the 4-2-1 in 2004 and the earlier ones will not clear the race starter -see this thread here. I have no idea whether the Magneton is any better than the Magnetti Marelli but I do know that the race starter is much, much better and turns the engine over very easily. Yellow SL #32 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevsta Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 Even better then, while I'm at your place and having a ride in your car...I'll take your old useless 4-2-1 away and stick it on mine! Lovely! 😬 😬 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Day Posted March 22, 2006 Author Share Posted March 22, 2006 Hmmmm......... my 4:2:1 is pre 2004, just had it nicely polished as well. So my options appear limited to the up-rated one from Brise. Kev: you're more than welcome to come for a ride. Shaun: thanks for the link to the starter motor thread. Edited by - Mick Day on 22 Mar 2006 12:33:50 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevsta Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 Or....give me your old primaries and buy some new primaries and I'll collect them when I come for my ride! 😬 😬 Have to have a ride...I've seen the engine in pieces...want to know what it goes like now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiddy1 Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 I think you will find that the brise will not fit either, it certainly would not fit on mine, hence the bosch one I am trying, current best price £66+vat as opposed to the £300 from caterham, and looks like it may fit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Day Posted March 22, 2006 Author Share Posted March 22, 2006 Has anyone tried these starters: here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Support Team Shaun_E Posted March 22, 2006 Support Team Share Posted March 22, 2006 I have no idea how effective they are but they are advertised as 0.9kw - the Caterham race starter is 1.4kw. Yellow SL #32 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Day Posted March 22, 2006 Author Share Posted March 22, 2006 but they are advertised as 0.9kwYes I noticed that, no better than my 1kw Magneton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave McCulloch Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 tiddy1 The Brise starter will fit with the pre 2004 4-2-1 primaries - I have this set up having originally bought the Caterham race starter and found it wouldn't fit. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevsta Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 Can I ask a bit of a numpty question...Why does the 1.9 need so much more power from the starter motor? Is it compression ratio that is the problem? Also, what battery are you currently running? Would an increased amp hourage not help? Juts my thoughts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Support Team Shaun_E Posted March 23, 2006 Support Team Share Posted March 23, 2006 The 1.9s do tend to have a higher compression ratio and I guess there is more friction due to the larger piston size. Is more work required to compress the larger volume of petrol/air as well? - not sure on that one. I am running with a Red Top 15 but tried with a brand new fully charged Banner as well and it made no difference. The Ah is not important for starting, it is the cranking current that is important and I have not been able to find a comparable value for the RedTop and the Banner - they each quote different measurements . The higher Ah will just give you more goes at starting it before the battery goes flat. With the race starter, my Red Top has been absolutely fine and will turn the engine over many times. I have not adjusted my cold start since the rolling road session and therefore it takes me a few goes to get the car started but there are no issues with the battery or starter. Yellow SL #32 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 The compression ratio is not the problem and the pistal pistons dont raise the ratio much at all . The real reason is probably that the honing is not very good and there is a lot of friction for the first several hundred if not 1000's of miles or that the timing is not optimised on cranking this combined with a poor power feed to the starter results in slow ineffective cranking . Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Support Team Shaun_E Posted March 23, 2006 Support Team Share Posted March 23, 2006 The Scholar blocks are hot honed under pre-stressed conditions. My understanding was that this means the cylinders should be their "best shape/size" when the engine is hot. In that case, when the engine is cold they will not be optimal. Could that be a source of friction in cold starting. It would explain why my engine started better when warm (before I got the new starter). Dave - I understand that you and Jason weren't happy with the shape/tolerance of the cylinders on your block. Does the hot honing process have a bearing on this? Yellow SL #32 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 Without getting in to a big debate on the topic - I understand it has caused friction on other forums. But the blocks I recieved were not very good with resepct to ovality and taper. This was measured with both a false head on the block torqued up to the rover settings and also in a "free" state with no head. Last winter my block had a little further work applied to it by an external company and this hasnt realy improved matters. I can only speak for what was measured on my block with very high quality guages in a controlled manner . As a comparison another block with std liners was also measured and this was considerably better and within spec for ovality and taper. I'm not happy with my current block and suspect that it will need to be replaced at the end of the year to resolve the ovality and taper. I dont know if this is as a result of "hot honing" , boring under the wrong torque or compression , too tight an interference fit of the liners, worn tools or what. But the measurements werent too good. ☹️ on the other hand the engine produces the beans @ 247 bhp . I havent done enough miles to judge oil usage - its been too blooming cold ☹️ Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 ps - my original magnetron starter form 1997 starts the engine fine , my little odessey battery struggles in the cold though. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now