old captain slow Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 We have just spent about 3 hours trying and checking and trying and checking to marry a 1600K to the bell/gearbox already in the car. The clutch appears spot on centred. Is there a trick to this or is it just an awful job and keep trying. C7 CDW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mav Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 You have aligned the cluch properly - not by eye right? the engine needs to be canted over slighlty and then as you get the gearbox shaft into the clutch plactes, release the jack / whatever under the car and gigle the engine & box together. I've done a few this way now, and it just takes a bit of time. A good bit of weight behind the engine usually helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Richard Price Posted March 11, 2006 Area Representative Share Posted March 11, 2006 Where's the engine come from? It may be that the crank is not drilled deep enough for the gearbox input shaft to fully engage. I fitted a VHPD engine to a car recently. The crank had come from an Elise installation. I had to shorten the gearbox input shaft by some 10-12mm with and angle grinder. (If I'd have thought about it before fitting the sleeve and spigot bearing, I'd have drilled the crank deeper ☹️) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nifty Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 I always think it's easier and less likely to cause damage if the gearbox and engine are removed and replaced as a unit. If you're still struggling perhaps it might be worth considering removing the gearbox and mating the two together and putting back in as a whole I appreciate that probably isn't the answer you wanted to hear but it may be the quicker solution in the long term. Keep off the straight and narrow 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nifty Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 Good point Richard If I'm correct then 1400s tended to have longer gearbox input shafts and the corresponding deeper drilling in the crank. Swapping from a 1400 to a larger engine often requires that extra to be removed from the gearbox shaft ... lets hope I remember in a few months time when I fit my VHPD 😬 Keep off the straight and narrow 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveMorris Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 And on a slightly more positive note - Unless you have the two lined up (almost) exactly they will not slot togethor. On Wednesday I slotted a x-flow in and it took ~30 seconds the align and fall in to place. (When they're in line it sometimes seems that teh gearbox sucks the engine onto it 🤔 ) Have a trolley jack under the bellhousing helps - this allows you to alter the angle of approach for the engine. Dave. p.s. - in teh past I've taken at least as long as yourself, including removing clutch plate and refitting/re-aligning from scratch just too make sure. Never put off till tomorrow what can be enjoyed today 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old captain slow Posted March 11, 2006 Author Share Posted March 11, 2006 How do you tell the correct length because guess what - we are swapping a 1400 for a 1600 mating up to the 1400 type 9 gearbox. The 1600 was from a 7 as well. C7 CDW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Day Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 Dave If you send me a Blatmail I'll email you a pic of my input shaft. My car started life as a 1.4 & was upgraded to a 1.6 a while ago. The input shaft had to be shortened. Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old captain slow Posted March 11, 2006 Author Share Posted March 11, 2006 Mick YHM 😬 C7 CDW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nifty Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 Dave, Simply put something down the crank drilling on both engines and compare depth .. ..... or just read Mick's Email. Why don't I read threads properly before I post 😳 😳 Keep off the straight and narrow 😬 Edited by - Nifty on 11 Mar 2006 21:28:20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 David, I think you will need to take an agle grinder to the input shaft on the gearbox. IIRC its 13mm you need to chop off. Had same problem with Tony Cranes 1400-1800 conversion...... I'm assuming you end up with the bellhousing about 5-10mm from closed onto the rear of the engine? If they do not get this close, then the problem is elsewhere. Some early cars also had a different sized spigoit bearing whihc could also be an issue. K2 RUM - The 7 in front of you is a DIESEL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Williams Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 Dave, I've been in this situation when I swapped my 1600K for a modified 1800VVC. You probably need to trim the g/box input shaft as already suggested. Removing the gearbox from the car only takes a few minutes and will allow you to check both the amount you have trimmed and the clutch alignment properly. Both times I have removed the engine from my car I ended up with the gearbox out as well. As long as you can lift the combined engine/gearbox high enough to get them back in I think this is the best way to go. When you compare the depth of the drilling in the end of the crankshaft it will be obvious if the new one has been drilled out or not. Regards, Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nifty Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 And whilst you've got the gearbox out you might as well take it to BGH *tongue* Keep off the straight and narrow 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dobuy Posted March 12, 2006 Share Posted March 12, 2006 Nifty, hope you are not advertising BGH, even if they are excellent and that's exactly what I would do as well 😳 Duratec SV, built in Dubai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old captain slow Posted March 12, 2006 Author Share Posted March 12, 2006 Yup the input shaft is too long. B***er. Just waiting for Homebase to open at 10 to enhance the toolbox with angle grinder. Many thanks for the photos Mick. It look like we need to take about 3/4" off the end and that matches your photo showing 1 1/8" to the splines. Thanks for the advice everyone. Hope the repairs are progressing well Arnie. Seems you have found the chassis limit but still willing to put more power through it! C7 CDW Edited by - David W on 12 Mar 2006 09:01:23 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbutnotslow Posted March 12, 2006 Share Posted March 12, 2006 Im not saying anything about BGH in MRS OBNS hearing. ESSENTIAL MAINTENANCE DARLING..............MAKES THE CAR SAFER ❗ I AM SURE THAT THE MAN UPSTAIRS WILL MAKE ME ATONE SOMEDAY *wink* Grant Taylor OBNS Motorsport 😬 183 BHP of Black and 'Stone Chip' excitement. 😬 here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
susser Posted March 12, 2006 Share Posted March 12, 2006 David; Once you get that angle grinder in your hand, take the trouble to cut the heads off a couple of the long M12 bolts. (The important point here is to make sure they are not the ones you are going to use to bolt it together( a couple of plasticine 8.8s are adequate)). Use these to form a couple of guides. That way the gearbox/engine will line up as long as you make sure the axis(es) are in line. 'spect you've already got it on by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nifty Posted March 12, 2006 Share Posted March 12, 2006 PC uses an old cutdown input shaft as a clutch alignment tool .. so simple and can't be wrong .. it's genius. I shall probably have a word with BGH and see if they have one kicking about that I can butcher. Keep off the straight and narrow 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadership Team SLR No.77 Posted March 12, 2006 Leadership Team Share Posted March 12, 2006 I use a socket in my kit that fits snuggly in the spigot bearing (10 or 11mm IIRC), attached to a medium length socket extension. Never fails Also, make sure the gearbox is not in-gear, enabling the splined shaft to turn freely Stu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dobuy Posted March 12, 2006 Share Posted March 12, 2006 Nifty, BGH do have them, I got one after my upgrade. Brian commented that he always cuts them off any junk boxes. Duratec SV, built in Dubai Edited by - Dobuy on 12 Mar 2006 13:17:47 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nifty Posted March 12, 2006 Share Posted March 12, 2006 Cheers Neil, I'll give him a ring. I may want him to tinker with my 'box again if I'm going from 128bhp 1400 to 200+bhp 1900 Keep off the straight and narrow 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nifty Posted March 12, 2006 Share Posted March 12, 2006 Good game of rugby yesterday, you must be pleased I've tickets for Twickers next weekend, should be a good showdown 😬 😬 Keep off the straight and narrow 😬 Edited by - Nifty on 12 Mar 2006 13:28:00 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old captain slow Posted March 12, 2006 Author Share Posted March 12, 2006 Thanks for all the feedback. We have it in and done. Pulled out the gearbox again having just put it back after rebuiding it (Road and Race). Took the bell housing off. Shortened the input shaft using Micks pics as a guide. Used the gearbox a clutch alignment tool. Put it all back togather in about 15 minutes. Then took it apart again and put in the clutch release lever. 😳 Slotted the whole string into the car and just haver the engine mounts to fix now. C7 CDW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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