dave1968 Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 I currently run Yokaham 021s on road and track. My car is a K series VHPD wet sump. (Touch wood) ive never had an oil pressure issue on track (just track days not racing). I cant at present afford to get the car converted to dry sump. I would like to try 048s as my track day tyre and keep 021s for road use but am unsure whether im asking for trouble here with a wet sump.....? (I run 185 front and 205 rear) can anyone help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fathead Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 i think people do but at the least they have an apollo tank Tom The most southerly uk blatter 😬Yellow 1.6 Supersport 😬 Photos here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Support Team Shaun_E Posted March 7, 2006 Support Team Share Posted March 7, 2006 Its going to be a risk - even with the 21s. I ran 48s (Apollo tank fitted) before later adding a dry sump and when we dismantled the engine for it's upgrade, it was on borrowed time with number 2 bearing scored. If you have the standard Caterham oil pressure gauge, it's unlikely you'll see any momentary pressure drops due to the damping in the gauge itself. At the end of the day it's really your choice but it is possible your engine will be damaged. A dry sump is the best insurance against this and an Apollo the bare minimum protection. If you have neither then it is probably just a matter of time. Yellow SL #32 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Gregory Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 Grads Supers & Megas all run wet sump with an Apollo tank, on Yoko A048s. No oil pressure issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old captain slow Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 My son has just had to replace his 1400K wet sump trashed after running AO48s medium compound at Croix in October. However, I think he was living on borrowed time anyway as the engine did not even have an Apollo fitted. I was running a 1600K the same day on AO48 mediums but with an Apollo and it all seemed pretty much OK. The level of grip on the AO48s was significantly higher than the previously fitted Falkens of course and also higher than my son's previous AO32s. So I am actually a bit concerned about the combination running on wet sump in the longer term. C7 CDW Edited by - David W on 7 Mar 2006 13:44:24 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave1968 Posted March 7, 2006 Author Share Posted March 7, 2006 Sorry I should have added the car is already fitted with an apollo (I assumed these were standard for VHPD engines). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h_____ Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 Just to reitterate Marks point, the supers (~55cars) and megas (~30 cars) all run in this format without issues. They all get heavy use on track, so you should be fine for the road and occasional trackday use. Most of these cars will go a couple of years without issue. Although some have forged pistons and uprated valve caps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgrigsby Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 It's quite strange having seen a tuned wet sump 1.8K with an apollo go pop on 032r's after about 3 laps of Croix I'm constantly amazed at how the supers and megas survive but I can't argue with reality. Rob G www.SpeedySeven.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old captain slow Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 What compound do the Grads Supers and Megas use? That might make a difference. I believe AO48s come in Medium and Medium/Hard. C7 CDW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Gregory Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 DavidW: Supers & Megas run medium compound A048s. They are also available in soft, but we can't use those. ☹️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tight fart Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 48s are not that grippy, they do squeal a bit though. IMHO. www.tightfart.com A7 RDP pics here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Perry Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 Perhaps its something about Croix that leads to the failures ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gridgway Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 when the Roadsport racers ran ACB10s in their long (30 min?) races, not all the cars had a dry sump. my 1600k engine has had a very hard life and seems to do track days on ACB10s - wet sump and apollo. AFAIK the bottom end has been done once in 40k miles. Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caterhamnut Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 We have used 48's for many trackdays, airfield days and Ring laps, we have apollo fitted - never any issues with surge or damage. When we did take our engine apart after a cracked piston (dodgy injector?) the bearing surfaces were immaculate - even after at least 70,000 miles. www.mycaterham.com here 91,000 miles -1st 1.6k Supersport, '95 Motor Show car Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old captain slow Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 I don't think there is anything special about Croix that would cause failure. All the bends are short duration except the last before the hairpin at the start of the straight and the former is nothing special in the way of sustained Gs. C7 CDW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeW Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 Bottom end checked after 12000 miles ( mainly race and track) - no signs of wear. We run medium compound 48's Agree with the comment on Croix- not a demanding circuit certainly compared to Mallory ( Gerrards) MikeW Mega Grad Race No 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old captain slow Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 Mike - assume that's wet sump with Apollo? C7 CDW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Bill Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 I've got a 1.6 k supersport running on medium/hard A048r's. Did my first track day at Brands last thursday, great fun But now you've got me worrying, we had 30 min stints and I have a wet sump (no apollo) I didn't notice any problems on the day, but from this thread it seems I won't until it's too late! Should I continue to worry or get an apollo? How much are they? ps. Angus, How long have you had your apollo? Did you do track stuff before having it fitted? Edited by - Little Bill on 7 Mar 2006 21:42:27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeW Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 david W, yep, Apollo fitted....wouldn't go near a track without one. Little Bill. I'd get one personally. Can't remember how much...but easy to fit MikeW Mega Grad Race No 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozz Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 When Dave Andrew and I looked at the big ends on my 1.6SS (1 track day on AO48's to my knowledge) they did show some signs of oil starvation. No Apollo. I'm now still running AO48's but now have Apollo (and oil temp gauge), no sump foam and DVA's sump gasket mod. Apollo kit from CC is about £200. Bozz Sorry, but my karma just ran over your dogma My Chocolate Orange here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old captain slow Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 Little Bill - just replacing my son's bag of bits engine that was badly damaged by oil surge without an Apollo. Not woth the risk. Apollo £180 + ish. Replace engine currently running at around £1500. C7 CDW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave1968 Posted March 8, 2006 Author Share Posted March 8, 2006 cheers everyone for the info, v useful. as i suspected consensus seems to be ill 'probably ' be OK with existing apollo set up but sensible thing to do is to get it dry sumped....so ill just pursuade the wife to get a second job in order to pay for it and hey presto sorted... 😳 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graeme Smith Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 Any thoughts on running a 1600 Vauxhall 8v on sticky tyres (21s or CR500s)...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gridgway Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 I don't think you need to go dry sump. Wet sump and apollo is fine. I'm perfectly happy with my setup. Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wahey Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 my old engine lasted 25000 miles on track with apollo. It ran just about every tyre you can imagine would fit but mainly acb10's - it also did a few stints on slicks. You should have no worries with an apollo. I am now dry sumped but the car is now essentially a race car and does very little road miles compared to track miles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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