philwaters Posted January 9, 2002 Share Posted January 9, 2002 Any one got any good or bad experiance of this brake kit for the front of a 7? I know both the Alcon and the AP ones are good, just considering all the options really - but the Willwood ones are also cheaper than both the other 2. Any good kits I have not spotted yet? Need to sell my X/flow before I can buy though sad.gif Phil Waters 1600 X/flow - soon to be 2000 Zetec wink.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevefoster Posted January 9, 2002 Share Posted January 9, 2002 Make a racer out of you yet... I guess it is which ones work to your satisfaction... Did you ask Jason and Nigel if the longer/less feel Alcon pedal issue was resolved? OR did they just learn to live with it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted January 9, 2002 Share Posted January 9, 2002 I've got a sneaking suspicion that the Wilwoods don't have dust seals on the pistons. If the others haven't either, then it makes no odds. If the others have though, it may make maintainence less frequent/necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Carmichael Posted January 9, 2002 Share Posted January 9, 2002 APs don't have dust seals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philwaters Posted January 9, 2002 Author Share Posted January 9, 2002 I have read that they lack the dust seals and this is swaying me away from them - but they are a fair bit cheaper than the Alcons, around £485 for the kit with new vented discs and billet calipers... will try to have a look at the show and find out what is involved in the cleanin - like how often? The long pedal I am sure is down to the master cylinder issue. Can anyone confirm this? I assume that if/when you upgrade to 4-pots that they have a bigger X-section and so pedal movement results in a smaller piston movement - thus you have a longer pedal. Changing to the racing cylinder from Caterham compensates for this and gives you the nice solid pedal.... Is that right or am I a complete wally? No better no answer that last bit teeth.gif Phil Waters 1600 X/flow - soon to be 2000 Zetec wink.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted January 9, 2002 Share Posted January 9, 2002 The "race" AP master cylinder is the way to go with 4 pots IMO.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
groutledge Posted January 9, 2002 Share Posted January 9, 2002 I have these calipers ( dynalyte ) along with EBC turbo groove disks on my live axle (155bhp Xflow). The calipers themselves are fine and work OK with the standard cylinder although recently I have fitted an uprated master cylinder which gives a better pedal but needs a bit more effort. Originally I used EBC Greenstuff but found that they wear quickly and loose all their bite after one track day, ter that the feroo DS2000 got a chance, the first set were good but the second where trashed after a single track day, the surface seemed to break up. I spoke to a supplier who recommended a new ferodo pad the DS2500 which has a high friction rating and where specifically developed for light cars and are supposed to be much better then the DS2000. The only problem I have with the cailpers is the range of pads available from different manufacturers, so far only I've only found EBC and Ferodo who do pads for them altough there may be more. It depends what you intend to use them for. For mostly track work I would look for a caliper which will take say Pagids (RS42 or RS14 I think ).These are without doubt the best pads I've ever tried. In fact two of my friends use them in the standard Girling two pots and their brakes are better then mine on 4 pots!!. I used them on my Elise 190 and you could muller them all day and they would not fade a jot, they are also very difficult to lock up having been developed as an antilock pad for touring cars. They're steep at ~£120 an end but well worth it IMHO!. I'd ring around the various suppliers and see who makes pads for the various calipers then decide. I think the pads are the important bits, not the calipers. I've run them for over a year now and haven't had any probs but like I said what out for pad avilability. If you are only goin to use them on the road then the Greenstuff will be fine and at only £22 a shot from Sejoc they're dirt cheap Hope this helps Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philwaters Posted January 10, 2002 Author Share Posted January 10, 2002 Thanks Graham, I do not use the car on track, although this will no doubt change with the new engine dying to be used! Can I ask how much maintenace you have to carry out on the calipers due to the lack of seals? If it is only once a year then I am happy to do this. The cost saving with the Willwoods would allow me to get the master cylinder at the same time for the same cost of the Alcons. Phil Waters 1600 X/flow - soon to be 2000 Zetec wink.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Sewell Posted January 10, 2002 Share Posted January 10, 2002 IIRC the Alcons don't have dust seals either! This is a decryption of the comment on James Whiting's site: As the ALCON and A.P calipers are made to race specification, high mileage and vehicles used in adverse conditions, inspection of the calipers during the vehicles routine servicing for corrosion and cleaning of the pistons is recommended. Edited by - Graham Sewell on 10 Jan 2002 13:34:47 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Flatters Posted January 10, 2002 Share Posted January 10, 2002 Just taken delivery of a big brake upgrade from Hi-Spec Motorsport. The kit included: 2 x Gold (or black) anodised 4-pot billet callipers 2 x vented grooved 260mm discs 2 x Braided steel brake pipes 1 x Set Green Stuff pads 1 x Fitting kit for Caterham (bolts & brackets) ...and they are fully dust sealed. Looks the absolute dogs doodahs! All for £450 + VAT Steve Mell PTM 88 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Sewell Posted January 10, 2002 Share Posted January 10, 2002 Please let us all know how well the kits works and any issues fitting it.... Looks like remarkable value. Cheers, Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
groutledge Posted January 10, 2002 Share Posted January 10, 2002 Phil I haven't touched them yet!! They've been on for about a year now. Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster Posted January 11, 2002 Share Posted January 11, 2002 Steve Will the 260mm disks and calipers fit under 13 inch rims? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Flatters Posted January 11, 2002 Share Posted January 11, 2002 According to Geoff Bedding at HSM they will indeed fit. He said 285mm (next size up) discs may well cause a problem and were best suited for 15/16" wheels. Steve Mell PTM 88 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Biddle Posted January 11, 2002 Share Posted January 11, 2002 Just waiting for the nice man from DHL to deliver new front brake kit from Hi Spec, so will be able to post a report in 10 days or so. Specs are, 280MM grooved solid discs with aluminium bells (centres), slimline billet calipers, and Mintex 1144 pads. They should provide powerfull braking with more "feel" due to the bigger diameter discs, and be lighter than the current standard set up. I went this way because while I need better brakes, I did not want to pay the weight penalty of vented discs. Hi spec say this set up will fit inside My 13" Image rims. The standard master cylinder will be used initially. Cost was 571.00 which is OK considering you get neww discs as well. Uk residents would of course have to pay the FAT of the land on top of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millsn Posted January 11, 2002 Share Posted January 11, 2002 For the record, my 'long pedaal' was crrectly diagnosed over the phone by James W as my having not sufficiently bled the rear brakes. Once bled the pedal is exactly as before except that I can modulate them more easily - for other, I fitted the Alcon kit and find it really cool. Nigel Mills - 2.0 Zetec carbs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philwaters Posted January 15, 2002 Author Share Posted January 15, 2002 Checked at the show: AP, Alcon both fit wiper seals and then a secondary seal behind this. Hi-Spec fit the big boot type of seal. Willwood do not fit any seals. Not sre if it makes any difference on a looked after type of car like the 7 - but good to know. Phil Waters 1600 X/flow - soon to be 2000 Zetec wink.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevefoster Posted January 15, 2002 Share Posted January 15, 2002 Slight correction Phil... The primary seal keeps the fluid in, the secondary or wiper seal keeps dirt out of the primary seal and the dust seal on the Hi Spec is whats on a standard road going caliper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elie boone Posted January 15, 2002 Share Posted January 15, 2002 If you fit alcon brake calipers it saves 3 kg over the std caliper. wink.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster Posted February 5, 2002 Share Posted February 5, 2002 This topic has been dormant for a few weeks, so can you let me know how you have got on fitting the brakes??? Did the 280mm discs fit under 13 inch rims?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Flatters Posted February 5, 2002 Share Posted February 5, 2002 Robster, I am just fitting my HiSpec Billet 4 callipers and 260mm discs. All looks OK at the moment. Unfortunately I will not get to test them for a few weeks cos of concurrent engine mods. Will report back. I saw on this thread that Mike Biddle was fitting the slimline callipers & 280mm discs. This, I am told is more of a racing set-up to allow the larger discs but the penalty, as I understand it, is that the callipers are NOT fully dust sealed a la the Billet 4's. Mike, correct me if I'm wrong about that please. Steve Mell PTM 88 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fast Westie Posted February 8, 2002 Share Posted February 8, 2002 Why are you all fitting vented disks? Save weight and stick with solid ones The car in front is a Westfie1d wink.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Biddle Posted February 8, 2002 Share Posted February 8, 2002 Steve, you are correct, the calipers I am fitting are do not have outer dust seals, but Hi spec say that cleaning is only required when replacing worn pads, prior to pushing the pistons back into the caliper, so I think I can live with that. Fast Westie, The 280MM discs I am fitting are solid, no need for vented ones. Robster, the discs and calipers fit under my 13" rims. The weight saving over the standard 240MM discs and calipers is 1KG each side. The car is still in the shop because I have been away for acouple of weeks, so my report will follow in a week or two. Mike. Edited by - Mike Biddle on 8 Feb 2002 11:04:07 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelspeed Posted February 8, 2002 Share Posted February 8, 2002 Missed this the first time round... > AP, Alcon both fit wiper seals and then a secondary seal > behind this The latest black AP calipers probably do have a dust seal as they are from AP's uprated road range. The older silver calipers don't as they are from the racing range. That said mine (older silver type) have been on for 4 or 5 years and apart from a quick annual clean up with brake clearner and a toothbrush I haven't touched them and have not experienced any problem. For a pampered car like the Caterham I wouldn't worry about whether or not there are dust seals. For a 30,000 mile per year in all weathers buried deep inside the wheel arch of a saloon car type of application then I might be more concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now