Dobuy Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 I am just in the process of installing an Emerald on my new 2.3 Duratec, aiming for 270bhp. I have 45mm TB's, fuel regulator set at 3.7bar and Green Weber 270cc/min at 3bar injectors. Karl at Emerald has informed me these may not be man enough to do the job You require injectors with a flow rate of 380cc/min @ 3.0 bar fuel pressure (or 330cc/min @ 3.0 bar injectors running with a fuel pressure of 4.0 bar) He also mentioned something about requiring low impedance injectors which rules out the Bosch green ones. I know the pico 330cc injectors have the right impedance, but may be too short for my fuel rail. What injectors should I get that would have the correct flow rate, impedance and preferably use my Weber fuel rail? Edited by - dobuy on 4 Feb 2006 16:12:47 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tableifc.htm Carbon Components Here K9 Composites Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 That should help, i use IW 058, 380cc per minute 12 ohms. Carbon Components Here K9 Composites Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgrigsby Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 I was going to reply to this but just realised I have the pico injectors so that's not going to help. Rob G www.SpeedySeven.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dobuy Posted February 4, 2006 Author Share Posted February 4, 2006 Good link Peter, but at the risk of sounding ungrateful, it doesn't have Webers on it, are yours Webers and is 12 ohm high or low impedance? Finally were should I buy them from?? Duratec SV, built in Dubai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dobuy Posted February 4, 2006 Author Share Posted February 4, 2006 Ah, I just read the bit about impedance on the linked site. This would appear to make yours not suitable for the Emerald without "ballast resistors" Duratec SV, built in Dubai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 Neil I would run the injectors you have at 4 bar. Some types of Weber regulators have an ali blanking plate which when removed allow you to change the pressure using a 4 mm allen key. AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 http://www.sbdev.co.uk/Main.htm Carbon Components Here K9 Composites Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F355GTS Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 If Cosworth are still doing the deal o nthe Green Bosch items these were £99+ VAT for 4 inc Duratec fuel rail (but are std Bosch length/ fitment anyway) They're o nmy VX 2.0 and Steve Greenauld was amazed at how responsive they were Do a search on here if you can't find it drop me a mail, I'll dig out the invoice Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Walker Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 Mark they have now realised their mistake the cossy green 330cc high impedance are now £160 with the fuel rail, still cheap IMO. Dobuy, If your running raceline/jenvey TBs that have a drilling for the injectors I recomend you run two sets of injectors, the stock grey ones in the head and your 270`s in the bodies should work a treat. Also the emerald needs " high impedance injectors greater than 2ohms . Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F355GTS Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 Rob the ones I bought from them were 400cc green IIRC (part number 0280 155 968 I think) and are physically slimmer and of higher impedence than the 'standard shape' 330cc green/grey part number 0280 150 803 (which I still have a set of if anybody wants to buy some ) As you say at £160 they are still a very good deal Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dobuy Posted February 4, 2006 Author Share Posted February 4, 2006 Rob, Making it Dual injector would be a pain as I have a nice new loom set up for only one injector. Ammo, it may come to using my 270's but if I can find a better solution, I may throw more cash at it. Edited by - Dobuy on 7 Feb 2006 15:35:52 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 Neil I think there is only one Weber "green" injector and I am sure it is a higher flow that the 330 cc Pico (probably at 4 bar). Unfortunately I can't find my file with the fuel injection stuff to confirm this. We have seen 265 bhp with a 330 cc Pico in a 2.3 Duratec. I think you will be OK with what you've got. Why don't you suck it and see? Found the file. I have a hand written note that says 382 cc for the green injector. I think I copied this from an old Burton's catalogue that quoted them to be good for 320 bhp. AMMO Edited by - AMMO on 4 Feb 2006 22:43:02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Perry Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 Mmmmm I have a copy of the Weber parts manual on my computer and it says the Green are 280cc at 3 bar and that the beige are 384cc at 3 bar. Interestingly it also lists Pico injectors that weber supply. Impedances and injector dimensions are also shown. I got it off their website, so you should be able to view it if you go there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dobuy Posted February 6, 2006 Author Share Posted February 6, 2006 OK, I have finally got some clarity on the issue. My injectors are the Weber IW031 Green 16.2 Ohms 270 cc/min which are "high impedance" and indeed I require high impedance for the Emerald (ignore all previous posts to the contrary) Just took my pressure regulator off for a look and it has 380kpa on the side which fits with Peter from Raceline saying it was rated at around 3.7 bar (no adjuster evident AMMO). I am also running a R500 fuel pump. I found this formula on the web for injector sizing BHP X 5 -------- = injector CC (flow in cubic centilitres) No Cyls Then that should mean that if I am aiming for 270bhp or so I need about 340cc injectors So, heres the first question, if I am running injectors rated at 270cc @ 3bar static, does this mean that running them at 3.8 bar would give an equivalent of 342cc? Second question, as the map I got with the emerald was for 226bhp, should I a) Change the injector size b) Change the fuel pressure c) rescale inj map numbers d) a combination of the above Duratec SV, built in Dubai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Carmichael Posted February 7, 2006 Share Posted February 7, 2006 The best on-line calculator I know of is: this one Flow rate goes up proportional to the square root of the pressure increase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Carmichael Posted February 7, 2006 Share Posted February 7, 2006 For 4x injectors, 270bhp. 90% duty, 0.5 BSFC, 54psi fuel pressure... You need injectors with >354cc/min test flow at 3bar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Carmichael Posted February 7, 2006 Share Posted February 7, 2006 Your 270cc/min injectors are nowhere close. You'd need to run 6.4bar for the injectors to work. The pump would not keep up with the flow at this pressure and would probably blow fuses all the time. Get some properly sized injectors for the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted February 7, 2006 Share Posted February 7, 2006 R500 pump cannot achieve a reliable 5 Bar, let alone 6.4. Carbon Components Here K9 Composites Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Carmichael Posted February 7, 2006 Share Posted February 7, 2006 The R500 pump can achieve 5 bar (in all likelihood)... it is just a matter of how much flow you get at that pressure. You can test this by just recording the flow rate out of the fuel return with the pump running and the engine not turning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Carmichael Posted February 7, 2006 Share Posted February 7, 2006 Adding that fior all practical purposes, I am not disagreeing with you Peter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Walker Posted February 7, 2006 Share Posted February 7, 2006 Dobuy,The green cossy injectors 0280 155 968 are the correct impedance for the Emerald being a nominal 12 ohms. They are rated at 310g/m at 3.8 bar. Any one know what 310g/m @3.8 bars is in cc at 3 bar? Also anyone know what the stock duratec grey injector 0280 156 010 flows in cc @ 3 bar ?????? Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dobuy Posted February 7, 2006 Author Share Posted February 7, 2006 Hi Rob, according to the link supplied by Peter the flow on your "0280 155 968" injectors is 310cc at 3.0 bar, the flow for the "0280 156 010" is not listed Link to data sheet here Duratec SV, built in Dubai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Carmichael Posted February 7, 2006 Share Posted February 7, 2006 Those are 382 cc/min at 3 bar (done by calculation...), so they'd be good for ~250bhp at 3 bar and fine for 270 @ 3.8 bar. Calc is... 310 x 60 / 1000 x 2.2 x 10.5 x sqrt (3/3.8) = 382 The 2.2 is to convert from kg to lbs. The 10.5 is a factor for lbs/hr to cc/min as taken off the rceng page that I previously linked. This implicitly makes use of fuel density at 720g/litre. Fuel formulations do vary a bit, with BP Ultimate and Optimax getting close to 760g/litre. Injector ratings are more usually stated for traditional petrol formulations at about 720g/litre. Edited by - Peter Carmichael on 7 Feb 2006 13:13:31 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Carmichael Posted February 7, 2006 Share Posted February 7, 2006 I was just going by Rob's statement of the figures for those injectors. The table does show 310cc/min at 3 bar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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