phillinda Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 Just noticed that the N/S damper boss has almost completely broken off the De-Dion tube. ☹️ I've read that this is a fairly common problem and I'm now faced with replacing the tube (car has only done 8,500 miles). I've also noticed that the bolts fixing the De-dion tube to the radius arm have slightly dented the boot floor just behind the suspension. The assembly guide says, "Fit the rear end of the radius arm........ using bolt(3) passed outboard........". My bolts have the head outwards and the nyloc nut inwards. What does 'passed outboard' mean and are mine the correct way round? I'll probably remove the A-frame at the same time to get it recoated (along with the front wishbones that I've only just finished removing). Is there anything else worth doing whilst I've got the De-dion tube and A-frame off? Phil 1997 Brooklands Green 1.8 Supersport Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Corb Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 Sorry to hear about the de-dion tube, its good that you spotted when you did. Before going to much trouble re furbing the A frame give the parts dept a call. A new A frame doesn't cost that much compared to the price of the bushes alone. I'd just give everything a good hose down with some degreaser and then squirt waxoyl goo here and there an dbe tempted to pain the rear callipers to finish off. You could also fit an LSD (see the ZF bulk buy... fingers crossed that it comes off!) BC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phillinda Posted January 17, 2006 Author Share Posted January 17, 2006 Can anyone comment on whether the radius arm to De-dion bolts are the correct way round and if so why they appear to be making contact with the bodywork behind the spring damper? Thanks Phil 1997 Brooklands Green 1.8 Supersport Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caterhamnut Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 8,500 miles - thats shocking IMO www.mycaterham.com here 88,500 miles -1st 1.6k Supersport, '95 Motor Show car Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Mine's still at Arch, so I can't easily check. However, my interpretation of 'passed outboard' is the same as yours - head of the bolt pointing at the diff, securing nut pointing at the wheel. Project Scope-Creep is live... Alcester Racing 7's Equipe - 🙆🏻™ Alcester-Racing-Sevens.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom_C Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 I'll look at mine tonight for you. It's a CC Midlands built car, so ought to be right.... Cheers Tom FH54WLX - only the car supports ManU, honest! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WILL FLY Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 How can Caterham get away with failures like this, which *could* be life threatening, without having to do a recall or issues a warning bulletin and inpection notice to all owners. If my Volvo was subject to a possible suspension failure due to crap design they'd have had it back by now. It doesn't matter whether the car is built in the factory or from a kit, its the design of the component thats at fault not the method of assembly/use. One day someone is going to sue them, I wonder what the situation is with cars supplied to the US ? Roy. See willfly.net for more info. If you don't spin you ain't trying Happiness is knowing you have just a tad too much power Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phillinda Posted January 17, 2006 Author Share Posted January 17, 2006 Mine's still at Arch, so I can't easily check. However, my interpretation of 'passed outboard' is the same as yours - head of the bolt pointing at the diff, securing nut pointing at the wheel. Myles, been looking at the photos of rear brake pad change on your web site and your bolt head seems to be on the wheel side, the same as mine. Mine was professionally built by Classic Carriage (Caterham Midlands) 97/98 so wouldn't expect them to get it wrong but something's not right. Phil 1997 Brooklands Green 1.8 Supersport Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Ah - I had a quick flip through, but didn't spot a clear pic... I was looking in the wrong place 😳 I am surprised that this could possibly damage the boot floor - surely there isn't sufficient suspension travel for it to get anywhere near??? (again, I've not seen my car for a couple of months now... Project Scope-Creep is live... Alcester Racing 7's Equipe - 🙆🏻™ Alcester-Racing-Sevens.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Day Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Phil & Linda I'm sorry to hear of your problem with the tube. This Blatchat thread here might be of interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeW Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Haven't personally done any research on this but I'm not aware that any of the racers have had a problem with this. Had mine replaced last year but only after I hit the arnco at Spa MikeW Mega Grad Race No 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevefoster Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 Some of the racers I knew changed their tubes every year. Depends how much kerb hopping you do. I doubt any racers of the at risk vintage of tube use the tack on / tear off weld mounts as race damper/springs are not progressive. The later/current cars that may have the longer dampers even for race setups will all have the stronger tube. There may be some over lap but when racing you tend to replace regardless to help assure you can finish each race. I've seen ear failure, hub failure and wheel failure but not tube failure at race meetings. That doesn't mean it hasn't happened of course. Hants (north) / Berkshire club here Area meeting pics here My Racing here Edited by - stevefoster on 18 Jan 2006 09:26:14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Bishop Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 What happened to the long thread that was running about De Dion tube failures last year. Someone was compiling a list of people who had had trouble and promised to come back at a later date when he was (I think legally) free to do so. Did this ever happen - or did the thread get pulled? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Walker Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 The Caterham assembley manual pictures the bolts fitted from the outside and the nylocks plus protuding thread going inwards towards the center of the car however the text says pass the bolt outwards. I always fit the bolt with the nut and protruding thread on the outside giving more clearance with the ali bodywork. Edited by - Rob Walker on 18 Jan 2006 22:14:49 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Day Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 Phil Have a look here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wile7 Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 When I bought Wile7 in October he had just under 7000 miles on him since new (a '96 car). The owner had just had replaced the de dion tube because he had 'heard' that they were prone to 'failure'. I thought that was a bit severe (although happy to have a new de dion tube 😬). Having read this thread and the linked ones I am not so sure . Are they (the tubes) that poorly engineered? aka Dave Ardley. White Supersprint with Clams 'Quote me as saying I was mis-quoted' Photos here and here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevefoster Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 Well, Caterham have had 3 major goes at the tube. The latest is much heavier and beefed up, therefore one would assume stronger. All for a reason?! I guess more power over the years is one reason. But hold on, the HPC when it came out had the small buttress tube and quite a lot of power / torque. The 2nd tube seemed pretty good untill the progressive damper idea. The argument of power in those failures does not figure there at all IMO. Stiffer dampers and bumpy roads might... So I will leave it to you to decide if the first tubes were poorly engineered. Hants (north) / Berkshire club here Area meeting pics here My Racing here Edited by - stevefoster on 19 Jan 2006 00:51:00 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhill Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 My 1990 car has the narrow buttress and 'through the tube' damper mounts, all of which I'm assuming are original. What's interesting is the A-frame. It's not a single piece that slots into the buttress, as on newer cars, but actually two separate pieces. Each piece fits around the bush in the buttress. I've never heard of this arrangement until Sunday when I started my winter renovation. Just FWIW Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Wong1697456877 Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 My old '89 car was like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom_C Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 phil&linda Just checked my car, CC midlands built last year. The bolts go inboard, ie bolt head is nearest roadwheel. However, there must be 4" of clearance between this and the boot floor Cheers Tom FH54WLX - only the car supports ManU, honest! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phillinda Posted January 19, 2006 Author Share Posted January 19, 2006 Photo of the failed tube here Phil 1997 Brooklands Green 1.8 Supersport Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wile7 Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 *eek* Wow Phil - thats some fatigue in what is a pretty significant component.... aka Dave Ardley. White Supersprint with Clams 'Quote me as saying I was mis-quoted' Photos here and here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Mupferit Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 Not sure which incarnation of the tube that is but the position of the lower damper mount is very poorly located from a strength point of view and uses insufficient bracing IMO. I really do believe the entire design needs a radical re-think if CC are to stem the increasing disquiet over similar failures. I'm sure the guys in my factory could do a much better job.................if CC are interested. Brent 2.3 DURATEC SV Reassuringly Expensive R 417.39 😬 Edited by - Brent Chiswick on 19 Jan 2006 23:51:01 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevefoster Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 Brent, Its the horrible incarnation - Verions 2b, with the mod for longer prog dampers, the (tear off) lower damper mounting. My tube is like this one except my tear offs are still on and ~ok?! as I switched to the 'proper' centre damper fittings. I would never put the prog dampers back on unless I got a proper job done in strengthening the mountings. Caterham have addressed it by making the 3 version of the tube, twice the weight and strength. It has only the lower mountings. You should have this tube (SV version) on your 7 Brent. Hants (north) / Berkshire club here Area meeting pics here My Racing here Edited by - stevefoster on 20 Jan 2006 14:09:34 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanP Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 When I took my de-dion ('98 vintage) off for re-furbishment I took it to Bruce at Arch and got him to add the later support brackets - photo here - hopefully that'll help to stop them tearing off... Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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