Heskyboy Posted January 14, 2006 Share Posted January 14, 2006 This time of year it is frustrating waiting for the oil temp to get to any decent level before you are able to "go for it". Is the only solution a laminove type heat exchanger? *confused*As an aside what is considered a reasonable operating temp for the oil before driving as one is supposed to in a 7? The car is a K supersport with an Apollo. 6ft 4ins now fit easily due to Tillets. however teeth black due to aeroscreen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dickie Normuss Posted January 14, 2006 Share Posted January 14, 2006 I use the oil pressure as a guide. When I set off in the morning the water temp comes up to 85 degrees quite quickly but it takes about 10 miles before the oil pressure starts to drop as it gets hot, once it's dropped that's when I start to 'use' it more Seek forgiveness, not permission. Rules are for the interpretation of wise men and the obedience of fools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted January 15, 2006 Share Posted January 15, 2006 This is a good question. Modern oils as far as I see it are more fluid at lower tempretures so as to get around the engine faster. When using an old type of oil it is slow to move at the colder start tempreture and needs gentle warming of the engine to get the oil up to a safe working state. So with the recomended oil or better for your engine the time taken should be very short. Modern grades such as 10w,5w and 0w are far better than old grades such as 15w and 20w. We need oil man for the correct answer. X/FLOW 1700 DD 1990 ROAD USE ONLY..SO FAR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heskyboy Posted January 15, 2006 Author Share Posted January 15, 2006 Thanks Guys, Mine currently takes at least 15 to 20 minutes to get to the same operating temperature as the coolant, say 80c. This is fine on track days and its better in the summer (but not much) but a pain when you want to ge tthe car out for a quick blat. I could do with an in line immersion to keep it warm whilst in the garage. (probably a c**p idea I know) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted January 15, 2006 Share Posted January 15, 2006 Or buy an engine pre heater. 😬 Carbon Components Here K9 Composites Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted January 15, 2006 Share Posted January 15, 2006 Have you got an Apollo tank? If so.... Even in summer, with something like a SPA digital gauge, you can see the apparent OT drop 'rapidly' by upto 6-8 degrees when you get out of traffic and up to speed - there seems to be a radiator-effect occurring whereby the area around the OT sensor is cooled by the breeze through the nosecone. The OT rapidly rises back up as soon as you slow down and get into traffic. I can only imagine that in colder weather, the mismatch between the effective OT and the measured OT will increase. As ric suggests, OP is a reasonable sanity-checker. Project Scope-Creep is live... Alcester Racing 7's Equipe - 🙆🏻™ Alcester-Racing-Sevens.com Edited by - Myles on 15 Jan 2006 20:34:42 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heskyboy Posted January 15, 2006 Author Share Posted January 15, 2006 Yes I have an apollo tank, how does an engine pre heater work? who sells them? I just found an engine pre heater in Demon Tweeks catalogue. £284 anyone got one? or know how it is plumbed in? Edited by - Heskyboy on 15 Jan 2006 20:29:53 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozz Posted January 15, 2006 Share Posted January 15, 2006 Has anbody with a K considered fitting a Laminova in the coolant bypass with an Apollo? I suppose the oil will be warmed as the coolant comes up to temperature and the temperature of the two fluids will 'balance' which I understand is ideal for the K. Is there any technical reason why it couldn't be done and if not would the laminova go between the engine and the apollo or the apollo and the engine *confused* Bozz It's not MANGO it's TANGO and it's grounded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Support Team Shaun_E Posted January 16, 2006 Support Team Share Posted January 16, 2006 With an Apollo, it is simply easier (shorter oil hose runs) to plumb the Laminova into the radiator top hose. People with a dry sump tend to plumb them into the coolant bypass as again it is more convenient. Having it in the bypass would of course mean the oil would start to be warmed earlier than if in the rad top hose. Yellow SL #32 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozz Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 Would the standard oil pump be OK with the longer pipe runs and therefore greater pressure drop? Bozz It's not MANGO it's TANGO and it's grounded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Support Team Shaun_E Posted January 16, 2006 Support Team Share Posted January 16, 2006 I don't really know the answer to that. There will obviously be a pressure drop. My oil pressure was lower after fitting an Apollo and was lower again when I fitted the Laminova so if you add in some long pipe runs you could see a pressure drop that is not acceptable. I fitted my Laminova in the radiator top hose. I have now switched to a dry sump and if I feel the need for a Laminova, it will go in the coolant by pass circuit. Yellow SL #32 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 bttt X/FLOW 1700 DD 1990 ROAD USE ONLY..SO FAR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oilman Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 A 5w oil will flow and get up to temperature more quickly on cold mornings. You need to strike a balance between cold start performance and hot temperature protection. Cheers Simon http://www.opieoils.co.uk sales@opieoils.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heskyboy Posted January 20, 2006 Author Share Posted January 20, 2006 No one use an engine pre heater then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbutnotslow Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 From memory Kenlow do one but I dont know if it would work on a 7 but dont see why not. They are quite common things in the US. I seem to remember that they are mains electric. When you park for the night you hook a lead into a "post" the idea being to keep the engine from freezing up in -30 degrees Grant Taylor OBNS Motorsport 😬 183 BHP of Black and 'Stone Chip' excitement. 😬 here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 Yeah - my understanding was that they are widely used in ultra-low temps to keep the engine from freezing - but this technology is a mile away from engine pre-heaters used in motorsport to get the oil/fluids up as close as possible to operating temp before the car goes out on stage/track. If you think about it, it takes a 120bhp engine 10-20 miles to get the oil up to scratch - that's one *hell* of a lot of heat-energy. Tell you what (Watt?) though - you could fit a dry-sump system and then dunk one of those 'desktop' coffee-mug immersion heaters in it Project Scope-Creep is live... Alcester Racing 7's Equipe - 🙆🏻™ Alcester-Racing-Sevens.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazerBrain Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 I'd imagine that a great chunk of that energy is going into rotary motion rather than heat Myles 😬 It's still going to be a fair amount when you consider the temperature difference between cold and warm running. cheers, Darren. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 ISTR reading somewhere that the heat-energy generated is approximately the same/twice that of the output horsepower. Lot of it anyway. A lot goes through the cooling system, down the exhaust pipe and through ambient heating, but even so... Anyone got a stock-pot and 7.5 litres of Halfords finest? Oh, and the wife on holiday... Project Scope-Creep is live... Alcester Racing 7's Equipe - 🙆🏻™ Alcester-Racing-Sevens.com Edited by - Myles on 20 Jan 2006 17:20:53 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 Solution then, use a cheap crappy oil as it takes ages to get around engine, causing friction, thus warming engine quicker and so warming oil - every one happy. X/FLOW 1700 DD 1990 ROAD USE ONLY..SO FAR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazerBrain Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 ISTR reading somewhere that the heat-energy generated is approximately the same/twice that of the output horsepower. Lot of it anyway. D'oh - I made the mistake of thinking that the output horsepower did include the heat, which of course it doesn't. So, could I quote my 7 as having around 400hp...? Of course only around 130 of that makes it out of the engine in a rotary stylee! 😬 cheers, Darren. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHRIS CLARK Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 Just about to blank part of my rad as it gets warm in traffic but as soon as you get going the water temp drops due to freezing through put of air and yes I am using a Laminova too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bricol Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 errr - just a thought - do you carefully warm up the engine oil in your tin-top? And how many miles does that do? And how many will your seven do this year? Or in the next ten? Bri (thrashed integrale leaking oil outside - seven, which cost 3 times as much, and done less than a tenth of the mileage, comfortable in the garage . . .) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slipper man Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 With a race engine (e.g. R500) this is a big issue and you should never put it under any load until it is showing 30 deg bulk oil temp, and full load until 50 deg. With your engine, which is basically a production engine with cam and engine management upgrade, you have less to worry about, because they are engineered to take a lot of abuse. Having said that, it is better to have the right temperatures, and my solution has always been to mask half the radiator in winter. The water and oil temps are related (e.g. with early R500's the solution to excessive oil temps was actually to fit a bigger radiator), and this way you will get all the temps up to where they should be in a shorter time frame - but don't overdo it, of course... On the oil pressure drop when fitting laminovas etc, I think it is just the reading that is lower, not the actual pressure delivered to the engine. On a K series, the oil pump is attached to the engine block and pumps directly to the crank through internal oil ways. The oil going to the appollo or laminova is fed with hot oil once it has done its work, so I am pretty sure that any difference in the pressure reading does not reflect a pressure drop at the bearings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevefoster Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 I ran a water jacket heater on my 2nd 7 - good for cold starts. Water was up to temp pretty quickly and oil followed fairly quickly. Bought it in Sweden where motor heaters are pretty common. You could certainly get one for the XF, VX's, Zetecs and Duratec's. K's never made it Sweden in big numbers it seems - wonder why 😬 On the XF, it went in a frost plug between clys 2/3. Connected up to the mains for ~1hr or so before a drive. Helped, but nothing like an F1 teams fluid heater... Hants (north) / Berkshire club here Area meeting pics here My Racing here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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