Brake pads

[Red SLR]

I am looking for a new set of pads for my 1600 Superlight.

 

Anybody got this spec brakes?

 

Any ideas on pads?

 

Preferably good for hillclimbing / trackdays / light road use.

 

Thanks

 

Simon.

 

X777CAT

[paul jacobs]

I've had a game sorting out pads on my 21, fitted with AP 4 pots and larger ventilated discs, this is the same setup as yours I believe Simon.

 

The problems I had with the standard pads, as supplied with the brakes, were a long and soft pedal, and no real "bite" and when I did use the brakes hard on track they overheated and disappeared. The car gets used for road, sprint and the occasional track day, so I need brakes that work from cold, but won't overheat after several laps either. I've tried Mintex - OK but still didn't get the bite I wanted; Greenstuff - gave fairly good bite, but overheated very early on then lost the bite all together for good; so at the factorys' suggestion, I'm now using Pagids which cost a FORTUNE [how does around £140 for the fronts alone sound?], but seem to do exactly what's needed, so it shows that it doesn't pay to make early economies because it still costs in the end.

 

I've never used them, but a lot of people swear by Redstuff, they'll probably come on later, but frankly forget the Greenstuf for a Seven.

 

As an aside, I found that the pedal feel also improved significantly after I'd fitted Caterhams "competition" master cylinder, I'd go as far as to say that in my experience, if you've got the "big brake" setup, it is imperative to also have the big master cylinder too, I really don't know why the factory don't recomend this [or do I?]

[Chelspeed]

Perhaps this is the lardy 21 v the sylth like 7?? Only joking Paul!!! I've used greenstuff on my seven for sprints and road use plus one track day, your 21 day at Castle Gloom actually Paul.

 

The greenstuff are good for me for sprints and road use. They did fade at Combe after 3 or 4 laps (two up) but they came back good as new when they cooled down. I've also used Mintex M1122, these were just as good as the greenstuff, no better, no worse. They're special hillclimb compound though so not available across the counter, mine were sorted for me by BGD in Bromsgrove, they're an AP racing brake specialist.

 

I've tried carbon metallic fronts but they were nothing special. I admit I'm tempted to try the Pagids but probably on my road car. I'm quite happy with the greenstuff and if by some amazing chance they ever wear out I can stick the M1122 back in (I've never worn more than 1mm or so off a set of pads before I'm persuaded to try something different... gullible me?)

[Paul McKenzie]

For anybody reading this with standard brakes, my experience with green stuff (used only on front brakes) is that they are totally unsuitable due to the higher temperatures that are generated. As reported by many others, they go off quickly and do not recover. I also found that they begin to physically disintegrate with one pad from each front caliper developing a crack across the complete friction material area.

Paul

IMHO Mintex 1144 are great and don't require warming up. I've also got some red stuff to try, and various people report these are good and work from cold.

 

 

Edited by - Paul McKenzie on 30 Dec 2001 12:20:08

[CHRIS CLARK]

Aha. The problem is obvious; you lot are braking!!!

No seriously, I am reading the EBC literature and this is what THEY say.

 

"Greenstuff --- Roadsport compound for fast road cars and race use on lighter cars. Has good initial bite from cold, effective up to 550*C

 

Redstuff --- Race pad also suitable for heavier cars in fast road use. Medium friction rating with strong brakes right up to 750*C

 

Temps between disc & pad do not normally exceed 400-450*c even in heavy street use (read therefore Green) In race use 400-600*c is common (read therefore Red) on smaller cars and in championship cup races can shoot up to around 800-900*c

 

EBC Greenstuff is a SPORT pad for people who want brake improvement. If you want a longer lasting pad upgrade to EBC Redstuff (a race compound)".

 

 

Well, from the above I think you can deduce that what is good for road use is probably marginal on the track & therefore overheats giving the related problems. For track work a change to Redstuff would seem to be the order of the day!

 

ps. I don't work for EBC, just check info. BEFORE I fit things!

[Red SLR]

I have had greenstuff pads on my old RS2000, they warped the discs, I did not find them very good once over heated.

 

I think I will try the Mintex ones.

 

X777CAT

[Paul McKenzie]

Chris,

I did check the info before I bought and fitted them (green stuff) and I did talk with the Distributor (Sejoc) who despite my request for Red Stuff persuaded me that Greens were the ones to use for track days in Caterhams.

The stuff you have just reproduced is, dare I say it, a direct result of the feedback I and others recently gave to Sejoc on the deficiencies of Greenstuff.

IMHO many manufacturers unfortunately use their customers to perform their Research and Development on the cheap, and EBC is one such manufacturer.

 

Please don't lecture me or others about checking info...or if you do ...check your info first.

Paul

[Johnty Lyons]

I run a big braked 180BHP K and since changing to M1144 have had no problems however I will be changing to the Race master cyl this year but this is only for feel.

 

jj

[JP]

Just put 1144s in today. I have standard brakes but with the race m/cylinder (1.6KSS). Pads need to get up to temp, but once they do the bite is superb.

[CHRIS CLARK]

Paul.

 

Not a lecture, just common sense I thought. The info. came from the side of their packaging box and the leaflet contained inside. Do you fit your own parts or get the garage to do it? Not meant as a put down, but you may not have seen this packaging. If you did see it, well...........

The leaflet has some parts quoted in dollars so I don't think anything you related to Sejoc would have influenced EBC in their marketing strategy!!!

Try calling EBC direct on 01604 583344 or fax 01604 583744.

[Alex Wong1697456877]

I agree with the problems with greenstuff going off once they've been overheated once.

 

I've been on redstuff since and they've been great. Quite a sharp bite and no fade despite the mass of me and the Vx lump. They do wear out a bit quickly but I liked them enough to replace with more of the same.

 

Thought about pagid's but the cost put me off.

[mav]

I jave the standard (read Factory Fitted) Mintex pads in the Big Brake set up, and they were fine during the Snetterton track day last year. I will also be entering the club sprint championship, and will continue to use the fitted pads, until either they give up, or someone can make such a convincing argument to change to another brand / compound.

 

Regards,

 

Martin

 

P.S I drive an SV. Read into that what you will!!! teeth.gif

 

Edited by - mav on 31 Dec 2001 14:11:46

[Moderate Clam]

How could pads be blamed for warping discs?

 

Surely the discs warp due to heat (also applying brakes whilst stationary and hot)?

If so, the pads/disc will probably reach the same heat regardless of pad spec.

Not having a go, or picking holes. But am just interested as I'm probably completely wrong. smile.gif

 

BTW, EBC GreenStuff part numbers are

Front (standard): DP2114

Front (AP 4-pots): DP2003

Rear (standard): DP2617

 

Take this to your shop and they'll be able to X-Ref to RedStuff.

 

P.S. I use GreenStuff and I love 'em. blush.gif

 

 

[Nigel Riches]

Lots of dicussion here about brake pads, and the lack of stopping power, but has anyone considered the brake rotor thickness, if this is allowed to become below a mininmum, but what is that mininmum figure?, then braking problems would ensue, overheating, braking shimmy / wobble, etc, any thoughts any one on the rotor thickness. Not all the blame me lay with the brake pads alone, they are but one component of a system of the retardation device of your car. Regards Nigel.

[Asklepios]

I agree that greenstuff rather over rated.

 

Do think that the pads could contribute to warping.If pad goes off say at 500 degrees,and looses its retardive properties( becomes less sticky,so to spk.),I should have thought the ability to generate less friction would mean less heat production and less warping tendancy.Much more complex than this of course ,but pads must play a part in the warping process.

 

 

[DaveK]

Simon

 

To get redstuff part nos change the 2 for a 3 in the part no.

 

Personally I use 93 compound carbon mets in the race car as the give very good bite.

I also use M1155 in my road car and despite best efforts I not killed them yet, Greenstuff only lasted the 14 mile drive to work.

A friend uses M 1166 in his caterham which is mainly road use and these give excellent feel and stopping power, as well as the catherine wheel effect at night as sparks come out through the wheels from the metallic compound.

 

Std compound with 4 pot calipers used to be mintex m1136 which is a road compound.

 

Graham

 

I,ve changed from the M1122 pads as they were producing excessive amounts of drag on the disc due to the residue coming out of the pad when hot and coating the disc with the effect of glueing the pad to the disc.If you knocked back the pad then wheel spun freely,but after one application wheel was again difficult to spin.

We decided on 93 compound Carbon mets after much deliberation and the difference is fantastic with much better stopping power.

They are probably not suited to road tyres though as the initial bite would probably lock a wheel if you were hard on the brakes.

 

cheers

 

Dave