freestyle springs

[Fathead]

Whats the concensus on freestyle springs? Currently my front springs look rather tired (read rusty!) and was considering replacing these over the winter for some shiney new ones, but having heard good things about freestyle set ups I was after the advice of blatchatters.

 

I use the car primarily for the road so would changing to the freestyle springs destroy the road manners of the car? I currently don't have adjustable platforms and i run a orange (thin) front arb (no rear one).

 

I have found the car rolls quite alot on corner entry which results in quite alot of understeer (testing on local MOD airfield 😬). The advice of Gary (i think) from freestyle was by stiffening up the front it may actually reduce understeer by stopping the body roll.

 

Basically is this the way to go? or will the stiffer springs be a PITA on the bumpy cornish roads? I have also found oversteer is not massively progressive, would stiffer springs improve this? I guess a LSD would be useful but I cannot afford one at the moment.

 

Sorry if this all sounds stupid but you've got to learn somehow

 

Tom

The most southerly uk blatter

😬Yellow 1.6 Supersport 😬 Photos here

[Jason Plato]

What dampers do you have fitted ? and what is the principle useage of the car ?

 

if they are the std bilstiens then I would strongly suggest 250 lb front springs , 150lb rears , orange front arb & dial in 20 minutes toe out . Camber depends on what tyres you use

 

Dave

 

 

 

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[EFA]

Stiffening the front will induce understeer, not reduce. I think he meant stoiffen the rear. Try 180lbs on the rear and leave the front as it is for now.

 

 

[Jason Plato]

Arnies suggestion of the std fronts at 150lb combined with rears at 180lb will make for horrid handling

 

I assure you 250/150/orange bar is well proven on the sprints with a K series engine it took me to a class win for 2 years

 

This combination will be great on the road and not harsh at all .

 

I forgot to add you should also dial in 15mm of rake ( the rear chassis under the rear wing shouyld be 15mm higher than the front chassis section under the engine mount)

 

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Edited by - Dave Jackson on 12 Dec 2005 09:24:10

 

Edited by - Dave Jackson on 12 Dec 2005 09:26:36

[Tight fart]

Tell Gary what you use the car for, and he'll give you the correct springs

 

A7 RDP

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[Fathead]

Dave, thanks for your advice,

 

Yes, I'm on the standard billies (MOs i think) and I use the car primarily on the roads.

 

I suppose toe in/out would need to be set at a garage as I would have no way of measuring this

 

As for setting the rake, would this likely be set roughly from standard? As I mentioned before I don't have adjustable platforms so i don't think this can be altered unless I fork out for some (about 200quid from CC i belive - more than i have i'm afraid ).

 

Tom

The most southerly uk blatter

😬Yellow 1.6 Supersport 😬 Photos here

[Jason Plato]

dont worry about the rake at this time if you cant adjust it - but you could measure what you have

 

the toe would have to be set at a garage after you have fitted the new springs .

 

the 250/150 como + orange bar will do you well on the road track or sprint

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Fathead]

brilliant cheers dave

 

Tom

The most southerly uk blatter

😬Yellow 1.6 Supersport 😬 Photos here

[caterhamnut]

Tom - I asked the same questions, and Dave offered help at the time as well. I followed his set up and give it a big thumbs up. At the same time I replaced all the (rather worn) bushes and that made a big difference as well.

Since fitting this set up and using it for almost 2 years I have started to play with it a little, with guidance from gary at Freestyle - you won't meet a nicer bloke Few little tweaks here and there....

Dave's suggested set up works realy well, and is a good known baseto start from - use it for a while in all sorts of conditions and you will begin to learn what tweaks change what and start to be able to 'tune' the car to your needs In some ways it is a bit of a black art - it all comes down to what feels good for you , through your ar*e - if you see what I mean 😬

 

www.mycaterham.com

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88,500 miles -1st 1.6k Supersport, '95 Motor Show car

[Fathead]

just a thought..

 

by not having adjustable platforms will changing to freestyle springs muck up the ride height? will i have to buy adjustable platforms to get it right again?

 

Tom

The most southerly uk blatter

😬Yellow 1.6 Supersport 😬 Photos here

[Jason Plato]

No - Just buy the same length springs you have already but with the spring rates we discussed earlier

[Fathead]

thanks

 

Tom

The most southerly uk blatter

😬Yellow 1.6 Supersport 😬 Photos here

[Simon.Rogers1]

Agree with Daves settings 😳

 

If you do as arnie suggests it will just be horrible.

 

To dial out understeer stiffen the front springs and soften the anti roll bar ( as a rule).

Just use DJ's settings

 

Giving it some more Welly

[Jason Plato]

its the other way round Simon .

 

To reduce understeer- soften the front springs or front bar and/or stiffen the rear springs or bar, and or raise the rear ride height 5mm .

[Petrolhead]

Dave, if he doesn't have adjustable billies and used the same free length as his current springs will this not increase the ride height?

 

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[Jason Plato]

yes it will in theory - but when these have been fitted to others it all works out Ok

 

the current springs are 150lb , if he changes to 250 lb then the front wont droop quite so much . But with just 130Kg ( 286lb)or so on each front corner - it doesnt appear to make that much difference in practice .

 

There is also the option of cutting some extra grooves in the damper body if you did wish to tweek the ride height or even removing the damper spacer near the eyelet if you so wished to add extra damper movement.

 

Dave

 

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[Fathead]

As I understand it I have the standard progressive springs on the rear - these have only just been replaced (insurance jobby ).

 

I take it it is a good idea to replace the rear ones with linear 150lb ones and try a flog the progressive ones. Is it unadvisable to fit stiffer front springs without changing the rears at the same time?

 

I did ask gary this but he said he had no experience of doing that. Obviously it will cost less and take a lot less time not to change the rears as well... but I definately don't want to make my car into a dog 😬

 

Tom

The most southerly uk blatter

😬Yellow 1.6 Supersport 😬 Photos here

[Mike Bees]

No problems stiffening the front ones first and leaving the progressives on the rear. Peter Carmichael had his handling very nicely in that mode (250lb/in on the front) and I've used mine like that too.

 

Generally it's true that stiffening one end of the car increases the grip at the other end, but not always. Some people have found that stiffening the front on the standard setup reduces understeer because of the excessive roll you can get with the standard setup (which can lead to the front bumpstops coming into play in the corners which increases understeer dramatically).

 

Mike

[Fathead]

sounds good, I am on standard track with a k series engine. Is that what Peter C had? Does standard track need slightly less hard springs?

 

Tom

The most southerly uk blatter

😬Yellow 1.6 Supersport 😬 Photos here

[Jason Plato]

yes - I would suggest 225 lb on std track front & orange bar , 150lb on rear

 

I dont like the progressive rears - as by their very nature the spring rate is changing depending upon roll and compression . This I find then changes the handling and characteristics of the chassis is is not as predictable as linear springs . For the sake of £40 I would change them

 

Dave

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Mike Bees]

There is some merit in the progressives particularly for road use. Adding a passenger has less effect on the rear ride height than it will with 150lb linears. By all means change the rears as well, but there's no harming in doing it in 2 stages - if you're happy after changing just the fronts then you have the option to stick.

 

Mike

[Jason Plato]

very true

[Fathead]

Wow, thanks for your replies I feel as if I learn more and more everyday (i seem to "invest" loads of time on blatchat at the moment - perhaps its because i'm working my notice 😬, almost free again )

 

So seems like the decision is made I'll get 225lb springs for the front before changing the rears if i need to

 

So... where would the best place to get them be?? Freestyle (understandably) don't want to tell me their rates of springs for their packages. Should I just get them off caterham or ask gary specifically for these springs, or is there somewhere else i can get them cheaper 🤔.

 

Or should i ask gary for the front half of a fast road spring setup??

 

Tom

The most southerly uk blatter

😬Yellow 1.6 Supersport 😬 Photos here

[Jason Plato]

I'm sure Gary at Freestyle would help you out .

 

or you could just order them from here

 

As I recall the std front springs are 7" length and 1.9" ID . But you would be wise to double check these dimension prior to purchase

 

faulkner 7"/1.9"ID x 225 lb = 7S225 @ £19.90 each

 

 

Dave

[Iain A]

Mornin

 

Another for 225 lb fronts and 150 lb rears and a thin front ARB, thats what I run on mine at the moment (on widetrack) and it works great on the road - soft enough to absorb bumps & camber changes, but taut enough to handle well and feel good. Also works well on the track with both slicks and A021 in the wet. Being a little softer than some on track means that you can use the kerbs without leaping off them sideways 😬

I used Faulkner springs which seem OK.. If I was doing it again I'd probably try Eibach. Dampers are Leda but the spring rates shoudl work fine with billies.

 

Spending time on the suspension is well worth the effort. The grin factor is much greater if the car handles properly.

 

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