Technical Forum Decisions/Notes

[Mrs Kipper]

I think that the question of trailering is a red herring (excuse the pun 😳)

 

When we started sprinting with the club five years ago we drove to all the events. This was because they were all within a reasonable 2 to 2 1/2 hour journey from home. It also meant having to take two cars - we needed to take the tin top as well to carry all the paraphenalia.

 

Over the last few years the events have been more spread around the UK, from Llandow in the west to Lydden in the east (sadly no more), Wiscombe in the south and Harewood in the north, many of which necessitate overnight stops. Also many of the venues, particularly the hill climbs venues, have little run off area and the possibility of a little whoopsie became greater.

 

I have what I would call a stock car - a basic 1600K SS which also does about 5000 road miles a year. This year we purchased a trailer and have used this at most events and will do so next year. Not only does it mean that Mrs Kipper and I can now travel to the event in the same car but it is definitely more economic - cost of gas for one car rather than two.

 

When I first started sprinting I thought that using a trailer was against the spirit of the 'arrive and drive' Seven philosophy. Now, It just makes sense 😬

 

Kipper

 

Fun is not a straight line.

[david nelson]

Kipper

 

Here Here *thumbup*

[Gambo]

I think it is far to say Dave Jackson has a car which is tailored for the track. BUt he still does 3000miles a year on the road in it. I also trailer my car to sprints , for 2 reasons. Cheaper in fuel costs( use my company van) also if you stack it, how do you get home. 🤔

 

RED 2.0 HPC now on throttle bodies

[MikeW]

Looking forward to a few sprints next year and great to see the Academy cars are now in Class 1 ( should spare the blushes of a few of the Class 2 guys 😬)

For those of you that don't think your car is powerfull enough to compete in whatever class the reality is that if you can drive you can get in the top 6. Have a look at some of the Class 1 times ( which until of late were all set by 100 bhp 1.6 VX engines and you'll see what I mean)

 

MikeW

Mega Grad Race No 22

[Bilbo]

Hi sjmmarsh and David.

 

My posting on trailered cars has always just been *tongue*in 🙆🏻..... 😬

 

Well you do get there with the car in the same tune it was when you set it up but from experiance driving there may prove that was not as good as you thought it was 😬

 

Trailers do have one huge advantage if your going to push the edge far more than I do as you know its not your transport home. Clipping a rear wing off is no real problem they are not that expensive but you need to remember you need the lights on the way back and that's rather just a hit a cone problem.

 

So confession YES I do take it easy on some corners the last bend at MIRA in particular but others like the bottom bend at Curborough well I just love it the rears always well out with half opposite lock and steer on the power... not that anyone ever seems to notice. Its not the fastest way round but it is great fun 😬 Braking late at the flag pole I spun at a very silly slow speed then found the clutch had plate gone but the car still limped home at under 3000 rpm and also needed flywheel skim. The other confession is I keep missing 3rd on the exit onto the straight at Curborough and making 5th 😳funny I never do that anywhere else I think staging on the start caused that and I have stopped doing it.... err as much. ☹️

 

Powers not everything especially when as in my case you need to be over 5000 rpm to get the benefit. A diff ratio change would help a lot but I would hate it on the road.

 

A smaller advantage of having a trailer is the mobile workshop that it provides and the tow car as an umbrella. Still I manage all I need but a trolley jack and few would say no if you asked to borrow one. Putting your sockets in a clear Caterham bag saves a lot of boot room. Any suspension setting I need can be done with all 4 wheels on the ground. To be honest I never used 90% of what I take anyway. The ability to clean your jets and plugs should be all you need plus a few bulbs fuses cable ties and some tape to mend a fibreglass bang. In fact nothing that's not normally in the boot anyway. The race suit and waterproof go on the luggage rack my helmet in the boot sometimes they are still on the back when you get there..... Playing in group 5 means I am not in a rush for the scrutineers so I am not in a big rush to sign on, empty the car fit the numbers, backgrounds are already fitted and fit the timing strut. The only downside is I never take the camera kit as there is no room or anywhere to leave it.

 

So would I drive faster with a trailer think thats a YES would I win think thats a NO. Then again would my times be faster with more low down torque and fuel injection thats definatly a YES on sprint tracks. Would I be faster at 11 stone rather than 19.5 stone that's also a YES. See no one items really matters but chane a few makes a big difference.

 

Can I actually drive fast..... well I managed sub 58 seconds on a wet club circuit with no dry line at Brands Hatch in a formular 1st, think that a resonably respectable time.....they even moaned I power slid it too much round the very wet druids then flicking the front to line up for the next corner..... but that was near 18 years ago and over 2 stone lighter so whats 2 stone worth a second what you loose in power/weight you gain some in down force. Why did they moan seems you allowed to put the back out but not correct by letting the front slid..... Far to much like a rally style. The previous visit showed me how to covert a front wheel slide into a rear in a MR2

 

So back to the thread as ever I wonder ...... trailers are therefore only for wimps who miss half the days fun ...... see you all next year..... now should I bring body armour as well nar there's no room in the boot 😬

 

'Can you hear me running' ......... OH YES and its music to my ears 😬 😬 😬

1988 200 bhp, 146 ft lbs, 1700cc Cosworth BD? engineered by Roger King, on Weber's with Brooklands and Clamshell wings, Freestyle Motorsport suspension.

 

Edited by - Bilbo on 25 Nov 2005 20:59:24

[Mark Durrant]

Bilbo

 

I look forward to seeing you in the paddock next season....I'll be parked with the trailer trash 😬

 

Mark D

Su77on Se7ens

 

[Bilbo]

Hi Mark

 

Roll on spring .... still if nothing else we have all winter to blatchat

 

I have no upgrades to do, good thing considering the weather forcast for the winter....

 

"trailer trash"..... hum.... think I pass on that as its a family site and relates to USA slang in the 60's

 

'Can you hear me running' ......... OH YES and its music to my ears 😬 😬 😬

1988 200 bhp, 146 ft lbs, 1700cc Cosworth BD? engineered by Roger King, on Weber's with Brooklands and Clamshell wings, Freestyle Motorsport suspension.

[sjmmarsh]

By 'stock', I mean that the car would be one of the standard or most common cars produced by Caterham. Ignoring SV variants, that would include:

 

K-series

R300/400/500

Superlight

Roadsport 115/140/160

Classic

 

.. and similar for VX / Crossflow etc. While there is no such thing as a 'standard' 7, the vast majority of factory built cars would fit into these categories.

 

An alternative to this is a handicap system that scores key items on the car, e.g. engine, exhaust, LSD and windscreen. While the advantage of these will vary across the different sprints, the aim is only to approximately level the performance of the cars so that driver ability is the main differentiator. Yes, there would no doubt be a car that had a distinct advantage, but if this happened the handicaps could be varied for the next season. Anyone very serious about winning could upgrade the car to take advantage of the handicap system, but they are more likely to get a trailer and be excluded from class 0 as a result.

 

Bilbo: I don't think the trailer is a red herring for exactly the reasons you give. Those without trailers do drive at 9/10ths because they need to get home, while those with trailers have nothing to lose (other than £££) by driving at 10/10ths. Anyone without a trailer will be unlikely to be a class leader. Add the fact that trailered cars are often tuned for the track and the gap gets wider.

 

The idea for class 0 is to give those starting out sprinting a class to run in where they have a chance of being competitive, almost regardless of the car they drive.

 

You could even run class 0 alongside the existing classes (e.g I would compete in class 4 using the normal rules, but would score different points in class 0 using the handicap system) to avoid the problem of very thin entries into some of the existing classes as entrants move to class 0. I would still be at the bottom in class 4, but would keep my interest going by moving up class 0.

 

It would also help keep costs down as it avoids the need to upgrade everything in order to be more competitive. I have heard more than one entrant say that they now have cars that are virtually undriveable on the road in order to be competitive at sprints.

 

Steve

 

 

 

[david nelson]

So class 2 you can have a roadsport, supersport, superlight you can have class 1a tyres and drive there if you wish

 

Class 4 VVC, R300,400,500 with 1a tyres drive there if you what.

 

I am in class 3 have a standard superlight i have a trailer for two reasons, Why drive down a motorway for 4 hours in the p-ssing rain with no screen then compeat all day and grive an other 4 hour in the ran, no thanks not fun. Driving on list 1b that are disigned for hill climbs and sprints would not make any sence, as they would be b-ggered after ech event.

 

If you what control this and control that best look at doing the acadamy same car, same tyres are slight problem you can still use a trailer.

 

I am sure you post is a wind up.

 

 

David

 

[MikeW]

Sorry guys but the trailer thing is a red herring

I've driven to events and won..........but it's far more relaxing using the trailer I'm not aware that there are that many track tuned cars...think most of us just turn up and drive. 😬

 

 

MikeW

Mega Grad Race No 22

[Graham Perry]

If I drove my car to the sprints I would never get there 😳 😬 ❗ ❗ ❗

[Steve Robinson]

Diasagree that trailering means you can drive harder than if you drive to an event.

 

Simply put I cannot afford to repair the car from an off, yet I will take it to events on a trailer. So the trailering argument IMHO is a non-starter.

 

I suspect there are very few racing thinking, oh well if I crash i'll just pay to re-build it again. Most of us (trailers or not) are on a budget.

 

Steve

[Bilbo]

Graham

 

why

 

David

 

Why drive down a motorway for 4 hours in the p-ssing rain with no screen then compete all day and give an other 4 hour in the ran, no thanks not fun

 

Never bothers me and I am on 1 b tyres but as I am slower they last longer and motorway miles do not wear tyres out anyway

 

To be fair I only do 3 or 4 events a year and none last year that was nothing other than reason than I could not make them. So far I never had to drive both ways in the rain nor am I bothered if somebody else chooses not to do so. Properly if I got up and he forecast was rain all day I turn over and go back to sleep not that the rain bothers me just that the track time would be a waste of time. However, when slipstream had a very wet day at Caldwell park some years ago I was one of very few still out there play when they closed the track for a few hours. Little rivers of water every where it was like driving on ice still that's all good practice me thinks.

 

I am well known, at least I think I am, as attending just for a good day out and everyone's very pleasant company. I also recognise why I am slow and give no excuses well other than my clutch gave out on one day. So no red mist here 😬 although I had an off caused by white mist at Lydden Hill 😬

 

Trailers has always been a wind up but there is some truth in it. Did BB forgo my offer of free bacon and brie butties at the meeting If you would like to know why its a wind up well every year there are disagreements about scoring and classes yet you all miss four basic points.

 

Those that win have sheer ability, mostly have extreme cars, small in statue and trailer. If or when Oily Rag starts to play in my car then you may see me with a trailer for all the reasons I gave before.

 

Oh one other thing they are well laid back Brodie to the extent he's near asleep

 

OIly Rag gets up to things in planes and gliders I never do and I suspect he will on the track. Watching him in his friends stunt glider as passenger made me realise that about 18 months ago. What's his friend well a British stunt glider champion and he went through the full display Oily Rag was ecstatic when he got out. 4 gees negative in spins.... me I breathed again when they landed.... he's hit err 8 negative 🤔 flying a RAF prop trainer..... no respect for his parents hearts... 😬 😬 😬 Me if I was in that glider I need a good supply of paper bags 😳 Still he has yet to prove he can really drive but seems to go very fast in a Kart and is in no rush to start in my car... maybe he's worried about bending it. Plus he needs to drive it first at 19 and yet to finish his first years driving the insurance is a bit stiff to say the least. Still I digress........

 

So you may yet see me with a trailer and I have no desire to see splits in groups

 

'Can you hear me running' ......... OH YES and its music to my ears 😬 😬 😬

1988 200 bhp, 146 ft lbs, 1700cc Cosworth BD? engineered by Roger King, on Weber's with Brooklands and Clamshell wings, Freestyle Motorsport suspension.

 

Edited by - Bilbo on 26 Nov 2005 19:24:33

[sjmmarsh]

The trailer thing is not a wind-up, but is based on the competition I have seen in class 4; perhaps class 2 cars are more evenly matched, but class 4 seems to have cars with widely different power. With 150 bhp I have a car that is just too high for class 2 but I am well slower than the other cars in the class.

 

Class 0 would operate a bit like the novices competition in that it wouldn't need any changes to the existing rules, but would add extra interest to drivers who are in it for the fun, and don't want to spend loads upgrading their car or to buy a specific spec car in order to compete.

 

I can just see that I will reach a point where in order to be competitive I will need to either replace my car or upgrade it and I am just thinking about how this can be avoided.

 

I agree wholeheartedly that having a trailer is more convenient and relaxing on the way to and from an event and allows you to carry more equipment. However not having one means that you must think about how you get home if you crash and means that you are only likely to compete in more local events (and so will make fewer entries). I also don't have the space for a trailer!

 

Am I the only one that thinks there is a difference in having a trailer? If you have a trailered car now, but had it taken away:

 

a) Would you go to as many events?

b) would you drive in the same way at an event?

c) would you enjoy the drive to the event?

 

Steve

 

[mav]

A. Yes

B. Yes

C. Weather dependant

and

D. The drive home - No

[Simon.Rogers1]

I get the idea but its all to

 

We need simple class rules - which we have.

 

If I had to drive to a sprint I would. I would still (knowing myself) drive at 11/10ths 😬 and if I pranged it then think of a way home 🙆🏻

 

I really don't think the trailer comes in to it at all. How many have had off's that required a trailer in the three and a bit years I have been sprinting?

 

I can only think of 1 at Aintree (and I must admit that did need a trailer - sorry Dave)

 

Keep it simple.

 

 

Giving it some more Welly

[david nelson]

So there real problem is that the is no place for vvc/r300 in the current system to be compeditive. If the were in class 2/3 they would win everything (also long as the owner could drive) in class 4/5 there is a great diffrence in power output 160 - 250+ .

 

the solution is not easy. The number of r300/vvc that were produced was a limited. The number of there owners that want to sprint is also limited. The current class structure takes in most of the diffrent types of 7 and pleases most of the people that sprint. I do not hink there is a solution to making everyone happy, although it would be nice.

 

 

David

[Silver 21]

I think some people posting on here are losing sight of the fact that this is for FUN, we've had the opportunity for discussion, its gone. Now accept what we've got and get on with it 😬 😬 😬 😬 😬 😬

 

Otherwise this will drag on forever

 

Graham

 

Lotus 7 Club General Secretary

 

[KenEvans]

Yeah - you tell 'em Graham!!

[robmar]

I think regs by there nature will always be a discussion topic, so in theory this could run and run...

 

I don't think any of the sensible suggestions have been put up as "we should definatley" do things this way or that way, and are hopefuly intended to be discussion points...

 

rob

[Silver 21]

Rob

 

But we've adopted the right approach, let the competitors decide and still people are moaning, not trying to speak out of turn but my understanding is that the the regs are set for 2006 so there is no point in going over the same ground again.

 

Once the regs are submitted as part of the championship they cannot be changed thats the way it works, If any of the above suggestions are genuine then they should bve discussed for 2007 not 2006.

 

Of course my view only but we have to draw a line under this, people knew a forum was coming up, very few suggestions were submitted (apart from Points Scoring), Forum has happened, changes agreed by all there and these are what are in place for 2006. This cannot be allowed to drag on, its not fair on Mark or competitors trying to sort their car out for 2006.

 

RANT OVER

 

Graham

 

Lotus 7 Club General Secretary

 

[robmar]

BB - don't disagree with anything you say

 

don't think anyone is disagreeing that the right approach has been taken

[Delbert]

As somebody who (quiet correctly as I know diddly squat about the topic) was not involved in the forming of the regulations my posts and the very helpfull replies were aimed at interpretation and to ensure that IF I was to enter class 2/3 then I would be in a car that would be at least competative. Thus any failure to achieve would be down to me.

I was certainly not attempting to change anything but see where I, a complete novice, would fit in.

 

If anybody feels I was complaining then apologies.

 

Derek

(maybe I'll ask about list 1 a tyres another day 😬)

 

Freelance Ferret sexer and general sloth for hire

 

Edited by - Delbert on 28 Nov 2005 11:51:26

[Super_Rich_Bernie]

A bit late to this, but thanks to the hardworking organisers. The rule changes look sensible to me, since I won't need to do anything other than pump my tyres up and top up the oil for the first meeting.

 

Shelsley is great addition to the calendar and I look forward to driving my car there (because its more fun that way, and I haven't got anything to pull a trailer with anyway!)

 

I am tempted to return to class 1 though.

 

Jonathan

[Bilbo]

Hi BB and Mark

 

I think some people posting on here are losing sight of the fact that this is for FUN

 

Well said and sorry BB I started the trailer bit ages ago, it was only ever a bit of fun and I had no desire or expected anyone to take it seriously.

 

Anyway they make the paddock look untidy... nearly as bad as Dave Jackson portable gazebo 😬 [runs for cover]

 

Hum 'Moderator' well best I put stop this before you decide its really spelt Terminator when I see you next

 

Your time and others setting up the sprint events was and is always appreciated by me as will be Marks from now on. You will never get a 100% agreement on the regs far too many variations and non standard cars. To miss quote Charles de Gaulle "How can anyone arrange a sprint that has 246 different kinds of Caterham "

 

 

 

'Can you hear me running' ......... OH YES and its music to my ears 😬 😬 😬

1988 200 bhp, 146 ft lbs, 1700cc Cosworth BD? engineered by Roger King, on Weber's with Brooklands and Clamshell wings, Freestyle Motorsport suspension.