EvoDunc Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 I've been scratching my head on this one for a a few weeks now and am at a loss as to what the cause is. When I set off in first gear I let the clutch out and the car starts rolling theres a low pitch grinding noise then large ammounts of clutch smell. I've tried to get the clutch to slip but it drives as normal once going. It's the same when I put it into reverse aswell, the smell is really bad. It only started doing it recentley and I am mechainally sypathetic. I'm not doing anything diffenert so it's developed this problem on it 's own. Any clues? I thought it might be the CRB but the noise isn't a squeal. The car is a 98 SLR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mav Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 Could be the plate has reached its wear limit and the rivets are being ground down on the cover / flywheel??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvoDunc Posted November 22, 2005 Author Share Posted November 22, 2005 Thanks Mav - I hadn't thought of that to be honest. I think what ever it is the engine is going to have to come out . Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry21p Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 mine did this.... clutch material had got low and come away from the middle of the plate, rotating and burning and making that noise as bits fell off, got mangled etc. and the crb failed and the clutch fork had come off as the pin fell out and my bellhouseing was broken. soooooo - not knowing what order everything happened.... i'd get it out asap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvoDunc Posted November 22, 2005 Author Share Posted November 22, 2005 Cheers Dave - when it rains it pours and all that is all that springs to mind!!!! 😬 Engine coming out on Staurday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry21p Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 When i took mine out i discovered some really interesting things 1 - my input shaft was the wrong one - i was part of a batch of 50 6spd gearboxes that used a naff metro clutch as an experiment 2 - the pin holding the Clutch fork in was missing, there was a big hole instead and the piece had properly mangled the bellhousing. check the pin to ensure that it is a - firmly in there and b - not glued in but pressed in 3 - the CRB was an old design that I have since replaced with the new caterham one - is a complete pennies part, but make sure you change it! also check the clutch fork to see that it isn't old and worn and knackered and the CRB isn't going to fall off it 4 - I have a nice clutch aligning tool that was very generously donated by Phil when he re-built my gearbox for me. watching the man at work was a complete joy - if you would like to borrer it, let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvoDunc Posted November 22, 2005 Author Share Posted November 22, 2005 Dave, your a legend, thanks ever so much for that. I'll get cracking on it later in the week when I've managed to find the courage to get the engine out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry21p Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 if you stick your fingers in and around the hole in the bellhousing where the top of the clutch fork pokes out, you'll probably notice a lot more black/grey "dust" than normal - similarly if you look exhaust side near the starter, you can probably poke finger in hole and bits and pieces will fall out - that's where they collected on mine..... Please ensure you do this with engine OFF :-) When engine out and off - if something has disintegrated, then ensure you clean out the bits BEHIND the flywheel as well (there is a lip behind it at the bottom as i recall) as i didn't and ended up with slippage and smell for a few miles after replacement of all parts as the last of the excess burned off... Also, don't do what my lovely instructor in the engine removal did (it was my first time) and drop a lit cigarette into the hole for the clutch fork just after you've spent half an hour wrestling the engine and gearbox together perfectly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvoDunc Posted November 23, 2005 Author Share Posted November 23, 2005 Dave - thats all wicked stuff, many thanks though knowing my luck it'll be a 13mm spanner I drop in and not a fag! 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry21p Posted November 24, 2005 Share Posted November 24, 2005 well - we just shrugged and hoped that it would burn off.... whihc it did don't reckon a spanner would do that. and once it's all in pieces and done - wouldn't mind knowing how yours ended up and how similar to mine (i.e. is mine a one off mode of failure) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Normans_Ghost Posted November 24, 2005 Share Posted November 24, 2005 Dave, I once found a spanner in an MGA engine, laying in the bottom of the sump. It must have been there from the factory as the sump had never been off the car before. Norman Verona, 1989 BDR 220bhp, Reg: B16BDR, Mem No 2166, the full story here You and your seven to The French Blatting Company Limited Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry21p Posted November 28, 2005 Share Posted November 28, 2005 nothing surprises me about supposed "professionals" these days so - any news on clutch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvoDunc Posted November 28, 2005 Author Share Posted November 28, 2005 Hi Dave, Just having a Pot Noodle break now to let all the coolant dry up thats spilt on the floor!! Fluids are out, alternator is off, as is the manifold and battery and I've started unplugging and labeling all the wiring loom bits. So far I've only taken 63 pictures to make sure I know where everything goes when I put it back together. One thing I found strange was the far right manifold stud wasn't actually a stud, more a allen head bolt. Think it's been retapped and messed up at some stage or are they all like that? If this afternoon goes aswell as it has this morning I reckon the lump should be out by tonight. When the Pot Noodle is done I need to go back to Halfords to buy a 7mm spanner to undo the dizzy cap so I can put it out of the way to prevent damage - can't get the socket in there as the dry sump tower gets in the way. Dam it - any idea how to get oil off a key board? 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Support Team Shaun_E Posted November 28, 2005 Support Team Share Posted November 28, 2005 Allen bolt for No4 primary is correct and normal. It's to clear the water rail. Yellow SL #32 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry21p Posted November 28, 2005 Share Posted November 28, 2005 I'll second that... it's supposed to be like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvoDunc Posted November 28, 2005 Author Share Posted November 28, 2005 Thanks for confirming that chaps. It's been a hell of a day off - I've never seen so many cable ties!!!! The engine is now out, the only real problem was that there was no bolt through the gearbox mount so when I tried to slide the block foward the box came with it. Then the prop fell out etc so had to ask a mate to help push and pull while I lined the prop up and sloted a bolt in. Once in the engine just slid out. Your original thought of the problem was spot on - the CRB looks OK but will replace as a matter of course but the clutch plate is in two parts. Theres plenty of wear left but the material has come away from plate itself. The bell housing is full of dust as you predicted too. The rivets are no more!!! My only query now is how to take the clutch selector fork out. It rattled quite a bit before so thought I'd replace this too. What are your thoughts? Many thanks for all your help - never thought I'd have the bottle to have a go at this myself!! 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mav Posted November 28, 2005 Share Posted November 28, 2005 Clutch actuator will pull / wiggle off the pins... Edited by - mav on 28 Nov 2005 22:16:26 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry21p Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 In terms of the plate, sounds like mine - though i wore mine down a bit by having to limp it 70 miles to the garage with no properly working clutch. the art of predictive driving coming up to roundabouts. One wonders why the material has come away... been trying too many flying starts? (that was probably my/mavs excuse). The clutch fork does rattle quite a bit in place (or at least mine does). Are you on a budget? and how many miles has the gearbox done? is it 6spd? If it's old, you've got a couple (3ish) of hundred to spare etc then I'd pop down to Phil and get the gearbox "freshened up". I say 6spd as apparently the labour on a 5spd is much more as you have to heat things up to get them onto shafts etc whereas the 6spd looked "easy?" - not sure that's the right word, but he did a very quick job on it - while i waited! Also - if you get the opportunity, look at the front universal joint on the prop shaft - mine was failing/had failed on one of the 4 joints and was causing nasty vibration (and potential danger) - if you can have a look whilst it is all out, i'd give it a go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvoDunc Posted November 29, 2005 Author Share Posted November 29, 2005 Afternoon, It does seem strange how the material has come away, especially as theres lots of wear left. I'm not into lots of flying starts (Honest 😬) though it does tend to donut rather well! The gearbox has done just over 10,000 miles, most have been hard track miles and round the Ring. It's from a 98 SLR so an early 6 speeder. The action is still really nice so I think I may wait until the end of next season before giving the box to Phil to give the once over. It didn't realise it was as cheap as £300 to refresh, bargain but unfortunately I am on bit of a budget so will sort the clutch, buy some exhaust wrap and call it a day. There is a winter program taking shape so will try and stick to that for now. Having said that - if the box does go, it's not going to be a £300 job I suppose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry21p Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 The box refresh that I had done on mine was after 100,000 miles on a very early 6 speeder. There was very little wrong with it. Still had the original sierra gearbox oil in it - Phil's comment was that this particular oil was STILL the best, pity you can't get it. I re-filled with their a n other brand that wasn't caterham following some advice ;-) The 6spd came apart very easily in his hands and went together again with a judicious tap here and there. It took 2.5 hours for the complete refresh job - i went to the local pub for a bite to eat and a chinwag and hey presto, job done. Bear in mind that my refresh also included a new input shaft and long nose - so the refresh was cheap. However, I didn't need much replacing - he simply upgraded a few bits and bobs for me to help improve the life of the gearbox. Having shaken it about he did reckon that there was no way it was a 100k mile box - but there are no records of it ever having been replaced/refreshed and it did still have the original gearbox oil in it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvoDunc Posted December 2, 2005 Author Share Posted December 2, 2005 Dave/Mav, Trust all is well. Just a quickie( ) I've just got the new clutch kit from CC and have centred it etc ready to fit and If I can find the motivation to get to the garage in this weather I'll bolt it back onto the flywheel tonight. But for all the searching I can't find what torque settings the five bolts should be. Can anyone help? Thanks in advance!! Dunc. 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry21p Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 not got the setting to hand... however i recall being given lots of advice so that i did them up in the right order to make sure it stayed straight! will dig around to find said advice - if anyone who told ME how tight to do them could join in... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidvoas73 Posted December 4, 2005 Share Posted December 4, 2005 Pressure plate retaining bolts = 11ft-lb or 18Nm ( progressivly tighten ), from http://www.blatchat.com/T.asp?id=29191 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvoDunc Posted December 4, 2005 Author Share Posted December 4, 2005 Thats super - many thanks. 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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