Nitrons / Avos / Ohlins / Penskes / ........

[Alex Wong1697456877]

What lb/inch are the progressive rears and are these a problem?

 

 

 

Edited by - Alex Wong on 21 Oct 2005 14:48:35

[SimonMac]

Time for another Bulk Buy maybe 🤔

[rgrigsby]

Hmm aren't they 140-210 (maybe 225) or something?

 

Rob G

www.SpeedySeven.com

[rgrigsby]

Ok I was wrong according to http://www.blatchat.com/T.asp?id=27770 the rates are as follows: -

 

Length 325 mm

From 0 - 92.5 mm: 138 lb

Next 82.5 mm: 200 lb

Remainder: 246 lb

 

 

Rob G

www.SpeedySeven.com

 

Edited by - rgrigsby on 21 Oct 2005 15:35:05

[Mike Bees]

A pair of Westfield "NITRO" shocks on EBay here. It's the second time they've been posted (no bids last time). Don't know if they could be made to fit a Caterham - or rather, whether it would be economical to make them fit a Caterham.

 

You'll be pleased to know that they're "well new".

 

Mike

 

Edited by - Mike Bees on 21 Oct 2005 16:11:54

[Grim Reaper]

Peter, I've got the Pro Tech dampers on the mini, see m OK, look great and they are infinitely adjustable too.(if the damping range is not to your liking you can move the range around until it is)

[Gambo]

I really don't know ahuge amount about the workings of a damper, but I think it was touched on earlier, do you want to guess the valving yourself or have a set which somebody has an educated guess at, or better worked out the correct values through testing, as freestyle have and also Nitron. I spoke to Penske the other day about new dampersd for the car. The guy was very helpful, talked me through various bits and pieces, but they do not have a huge amount of expierience with caterhams. So it was ' we'll valve it how you want it sir' And if I am honest I would not know where to start. So whilst Penske may be better than nitron, a Penske which is valved incorrectely for the aplication would probably be worse than a Spax 😳. Nitrons are quite prolific with Caterhams now so I guess they know are gett pretty good at specking the valving weith the spring rates for Caterhams, so I would probably go for them.

 

 

RED 2.0 HPC now on throttle bodies

[DSL]

If you are not too bothered by the price difference, the nitron's are unquestionably the way to go.

 

They have the relevent Caterham experience & a high quality product.

 

You only need look at the sprint results from people who have switched to them from other makes, to see the value of them from a pure performance point of view *thumbup*

[Neill Anderson]

Dampers ARE very complicated and there are perhaps a handful of experienced set up drivers that can drive a car and listen to your request and translate that into a damper curve. Of that handful there are perhaps 2 that are available for commercial hire (£00's per day) that understand also WHAT a damper manufacturer can actually build REPEATABLY.

Adjustables seem better as you can adjust SOME of that curve yourself and see how it feels. IF you adjust it and cannot feel the difference then there are 2 explainations: you are really insensitive OR, more likely, the adjuster dos NOT adjust the part of the damper curve that the car uses.

It is this latter point that makes going for something with history the most sensible option in the absence of being allowed to try loads of different products back to back.

The principal difference between damper brands and their prices is simply the overall design and construction quality, the key element being a consistent minimisation of internal friction. The lighter the car and the lighter the unsprung mass the more this becomes important.

The adjuster physics, gas/oil volumes etc are also important design factors, as is rod chrome quality etc.

Be aware that whilst you NEVER get what you DON'T pay for the opposite is not automatically true!

 

PS

Vx 2.0 understeer on corner entry primarily as a result of there being too much wiegth too high up too far forward, like Audi Quattro's etc. Damper settings will affect this more than relative front and rear spring rates due to corner entry being intrinsically transient. The bump stop lengths and progression also play an important role and so ride height is another factor. Tyres also have their own spring and damping rates in series with the coil overs and ..... so on etc

 

Neill

 

 

New 7 Owner

1996 VX 2.0

 

Edited by - Neill Anderson on 21 Oct 2005 19:30:00

[NoLimits]

If you simply want to calculate the theoretical spring rate then look here. http://www.iroczone.com/calcs/chassis.htm

 

No need to take the springs off the car etc just some measurements with the springs uncompressed. Its simple and will give you the "specified" spring rate.

 

To get a more accurate calculation of the spring rate then using Daves method is correct. This information can be inputed to the calculation tool here http://www.engineersedge.com/spring_comp_calc.htm

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

MY 51VEN

Give it some Welly

[Alex Wong1697456877]

You only need look at the sprint results from people who have switched to them from other makes, to see the value of them from a pure performance point of view

 

Ummmm. What are Brodie and Dave Jackson using?

[DSL]

Brodie changed to Nitron from freestyle for the last 4 or 5 events & has been faster every where on them, including breaking Dave Kimberlys record at I think two events.

 

More pertinent to me is John Powell who all year has been consistentely 1 to 1.5secs slower than me, then he changed to Nitrons & the last two events was miles closer to me at approx .3 or .5 of a second behind ( check the results, he changed to them for Loton Park, at Curburger he struggled to get under 61 secs before, but with them about a 59.7 ish I seam to remember). He is well chuffed with them!

 

As for Dave, he does not use freestyle springs, but runs his own rates, after considerable trial & error no doubt.

 

I run freestyle myself on my R400, but the new ones going onto Nitrons

[Jason Plato]

Sprint results - I too was surprised to see this comment . I dont think anyone has moved forward with their times as a direct result of dampers. Please correct me if I'm mistaken

 

Brodie changed mid season from AVO > Nitron but also changed the size of his wheels and compound of tyres .

 

John Powel changed dampers and I dont know if he saw any time gains as a direct result - It was good enough for him to secure 2nd overall in class 5 tho

 

I changed at the start of this year to AVO's but i also changed tyres (avons) and spring rates and engines.

 

I think the only way i would consider changing dampers next time would be to change the front ones and then after a little testing and maybe a meeting or two , then change the rears . At least you may have some idea of what changes the dampers are making.

 

At the end of the day I think its fair to say that none of us on here have enough experience or engineering understanding or means of determining the gains to decide if one damper is better than the other. Just because one damper is £80 and another is £300 doesnt mean it will make your car go faster around a given course. The dampers need to be matched to your driving style , car and course. For most of us this is a best guess.

 

The top hillclimbers use penske , flavour of the month is currently Nitron on this site . It used to be Freestyles AVO's . A number if years ago it was Ledas .

 

Pays ya money takes your choice ........ maybe the time display will stop a little sooner ??

 

 

Edited by - Dave Jackson on 22 Oct 2005 07:54:56

[The Polisher]

 

I bought Brodie's Freestyle Avo's to fit to my 1.8 widetrack Roadsport. He was obviously not aware, but they were well and truly 'goosed'.

Outwardly they look fine but on removing the springs I found that the damping rates differed drasticaly even on a hand test. One rear locked up if the piston rod was rotated to a certain point! ☹️

 

I sent them to Avo via Freestyle for a £80 rebuild and on return was happy with the front pair but the rear pair were a joke.....on full damping I could compress one in 10 secs and the other in 2 secs.

 

Avo were very helpfull and offered to rebuild once more but at the same time stating that they were a 'budget' damper. On return, with well matched dyno graphs, I was now happy to fit them along with the Freestyle adjustable ARB.

 

The car was so much more compliant at the front but initialy darted about on bumpy roads.......not a nice feeling! After speeking to Gary at Freestyle I checked out the bump steer which Ialmost eliminated by packing the steering rack 6mm.

 

Had the car on track at Anglesey Yesterday......what a transformation! 😬 No understeer on turn in!..... powerslide on exit.! So much more grip and feel and plenty of adjustability to play with.

 

 

 

 

Dave H.

Mad about S77ENS