Davey Bee Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 What are the real downsides of bike engine? Yea I know that they are light and high reving, with great bhp for there capacity. However if life has only taught me one thing, it is that you don't get anything for nothing. So where do you lose out on a bike engine. TRY 5S Buzzin' Bee It's never too late for a happy childhood *cool* Edited by - Davey Bee on 31 Oct 2005 11:46:33 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davey Bee Posted October 19, 2005 Author Share Posted October 19, 2005 It looks like at last I may be wrong, there are no downsides TRY 5S Buzzin' Bee It's never too late for a happy childhood *cool* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgrigsby Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 Noise can be an issue, takes a while to get used to the sequential boxm gear changes can be a bit clunky sometimes (particularly 1st), no reverse gear, some people have had prop shaft problems (mainly caused by reversing mechanisims I believe) But otherwise they are great!!! 😬 I almost ended up with one but went Duratec in the end. The Megabusa I've driven a few times is huge amounts of fun. Rob G www.SpeedySeven.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil.cavanagh Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 reliability? wearing on long drives. day-to-day hard to live with...(reverser problems, noise etc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davey Bee Posted October 19, 2005 Author Share Posted October 19, 2005 Neil please give me more details about reliability. TRY 5S Buzzin' Bee It's never too late for a happy childhood *cool* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Locust Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 Look for Nick Addison's recent thread on reverser problems/nasty noises etc. Ian Green and Silver Roadsport 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powderpuff Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 Dave...after your Vx you'd never live with the lack of torque Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgrigsby Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 A lot has been made of the fact that a bike engine in a car is pulling something typically 3 times it's normal weight and therefore should experience more or faster wear than normal. I've not got much experience of this but I've seen quite a few bike engined cars out there with 10k+ miles on them and no problems, equally I've seen a few that have blown up a lot sooner but usually there has been a good reason. Rob G www.SpeedySeven.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Richard Price Posted October 19, 2005 Area Representative Share Posted October 19, 2005 Dave...after your Vx you'd never live with the lack of torque PP, Griff's 'busa does not lack torque! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blade_runner Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 Mainly the transmission takes a hammering. they also have small output alternators, so with a standard rectifier if driving at slow speeds ie under 5 to 6k in the rain with lights on, electric fuel pump, etc... it can run the battery down, then if ya stall it you need a push!( I fitted an uprated rectifier) when crusing they do tend to feel like there reving there nuts out, but you get used to this with time, And as I was One of the two blades that made the swiz trip this year, who says there no good for touring? It was happy on the motorways, Auto routes, tunnels and mountain passes! although it did bog down at altitude, more to do with running carbs that are set up rich! But when they really come alive is on the track 😬 12k rpm's, clutchless upshifting 😬 great fun 'Pinky Pics' here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickaddison Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 I can honestly say that after almost 9,000 miles including about 15 track days that the only mechanical problem that I have had has been the reverser chain (twice). I am also proud that on the 2004 Le Sept we were the only BEC to drive (not trailer) all the way through France right down to the south coast taking in 3 trackdays (3,000 miles?) and it didn't skip a beat Practical downsides? Yes clunky at low speeds er, what else? Remember to cover the airbox if left outside in the rain as the trumpets point upwards not sideways and fill up in the rain Never had a problem with the battery, which I keep on charge at home with an Optimate conditioner Noise no longer an issue since I replaced the can earlier this year - tested at Oulton at 99db and Goodwood at 100db Gordon, don't get me started on the "lack of torque" arguement Blue Light 05 DVD available NOW! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blade_runner Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 Nick, what exhaust can are you using now? 'Pinky Pics' here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davey Bee Posted October 20, 2005 Author Share Posted October 20, 2005 What type of torque figures would you expect out of a 14/1500cc 'busa, in fact what bhp and most important what cost. TRY 5S Buzzin' Bee It's never too late for a happy childhood *cool* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet Elizabeth Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 You are looking at about 180 bhp, and 100 ft.lbs for a fairly standard (i.e not Adam's ) EFI busa. Might not seem much torque, but it will be producing it @ 7000rpm The downside of bike engines, at least in a Caterham (and I was banging on about this in Chitchat so might as well continue) is the availability of bits for anything non-standard. And even anything fairly standard now that JW isn't producing bits for the blade. This can push the cost up, or at least the headache, you can't just go to Caterham and ask for a Busa conversion "kit" ! If you are thinking of going down the busa route, but not doing anything like adding a turbo, then it might also be worth considering the Yamaha R1. Doesn't need dry sumping, and is a cheaper engine to buy than the busa - they are pretty rare bikes in the first place, and don't get dropped that often. With the overall weight saving, I would imagine a fairly standard busa install would have much the same bhp/tonne as an R1 install. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie_pank Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 A bike is considered high mileage when it has covered 20k. Very generally speaking, the engines need more love than car engines as they are more highly stressed. Your average car engine has hydraulic tappets, so should never need adjusting, whereas bikes tend to run solid ones, thus requiring adjustment during a service - not a biggy, but just an example. I understand that the bike clutches tend to struggle a bit in car installations, although changing the clutch is an easy process on a bike engine - designed to be done in-situ. Yes, I would love one btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 Three seasons' worth of track days and hillclimbs with little more than regular oil changes!Practical beyond belief and fantastic fun! *thumbup* '......in yer bike!' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickaddison Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 blade-runner From Good Fabrications near Thame in Oxfordshire (quite handy for me) - Paul Thompson, Andrew Walker and latterly myself all replaced our original Blade silencers with theirs (originally designed for Paul's car) They are repackable unlike the original. Pics HERE, HERE, and HERE They will make it up in advance and then take an hour or 2 at their place to fit it. This is necessary as even our 3 cars were all subtly different. They did a very tidy job and I would recommend them to anyone, indeed local sprinter David Nelson had one for his Superlight fairly recently. They also made me a short connector pipe with the appropriate coupling on one end to allow me to take the new silencer off and put James' SVA special back on for MOTs etc Phil is the bloke to speak to - contact details HERE Blue Light 05 DVD available NOW! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickaddison Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 I have though of another downside.... It's quite hard not to keep accerating past what's legal on the road as the revs are kind of addictive. I understand where bikers get it from much more now 😬 Blue Light 05 DVD available NOW! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerrypike Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 reliability wise gearboxes have been an issue for the blackbird racers in our series this year downside wise they're difficult to get off the line (good news for some of us) but better than the radicals i'm sure the gearbox issue is related to wt/traction as i've done>40,000 miles on mine with no problems at all at least in a 7 aerodynamics take care of nicks problem 😬 jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blade_runner Posted October 22, 2005 Share Posted October 22, 2005 Nick do you have any idea how loud your car is? at the moment I have the standard silencer which is knackered, and I would struggle to get on most tracks, I quite fancy a Raceco titanium jobbie these are stunning and very quiet . the quality and workmanship are second to none... but they are expensive ☹️ can you remember roughly how much yours set you back? i have also bought a nearly new standard RRW silencer from e bay, and could be looking for somewhere to fabricate a pipe and bracket for this, maybe your exhaust maker could be the guy worth a call me thinks. 'Pinky Pics' here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atinod Posted October 22, 2005 Share Posted October 22, 2005 blade-runner I too had the standard [empty?!] silencer and Grubbster and I tested it at 106db at 7500rpm just before I took it to Good Fabrications. At the recent MSE charity airfield day they tested it at 92db at 7000rpm and 95db at about 8000rpm I too am delighted with G.F. and I'm sure Phil will be happy to fabricate anything you need. Mine cost £380 inc. VAT [fitted] I think. The joint shown in Nick's shots is made with two clever rings [under the clamp] which simply slide and then 'lock' together so that the whole silencer can almost be offered up to the car in its final position [from the side rather than along the line of the exhaust, if you know what I mean]. I was wondering Nick whether to use the old box and get G.F. to make a connector [like it sounds you have] with a second hand cat. in line as an MOT solution so I don't have to hire James Whitings. Do you think this is worth it and any idea of what kind of cat. will do James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blade_runner Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 I have another problem with mine noise wise... the induction noise.. I have the standard cut down airbox. but Motorpower firehawk ( russell savory RSTV8 ) own design superbike cams. when I'm driving the car on full throttle I cant really hear the exhaust but the induction roar, still I suppose I would pass a static noise test with a new exhaust can, dont really want to be trying to find a new airbox design. 'Pinky Pics' here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE GILBERT Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 I like the comment 'A bike is considered high mileage when it has covered 20k.' Shouldn't that be 'A CATERHAM is considered high mileage when it has covered 20k' I think you need to put any downside of bike engines into perspective. I have a COMPLETE low mileage engine under the bench which as you know include box, starter, carbs all ancilliarys etc and it cost me £800, whats to worry about Regarding gearboxes I could massively increase the strength of mine by replacing with an aftermarket item from Quaife or Nova. Typical cost is £1k which is about the same as any uprated gearbox for a CEC See My Caterham Fireblade Here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Normans_Ghost Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 Steve G is right about cost. I was at Stuart Taylors (sorting Nogers radiator) and we got to talking engines. Stuart (not his name, but can't remember) said theu can be tiring on long journeys, difficult to drive in traffic and need to rev at very high revs. He then pointed to mine and asked what engine. "So how much has all that cost?" "about 15k in all" was the reply. Pointing to Nogers engine he says "If I trash that I get a new one for a grand" Food for thought. Norman Verona, 1989 BDR 220bhp, Reg: B16BDR, Mem No 2166, the full story here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickaddison Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 Steve, where did you get your spare engine from? I was thinking about doing that too. Last conversation I had with James on the subject he said that the RRW engines were getting harder to find as all the bikes that were going to get crashed have been No idea what kind of cat you'd need but such a thing should be possible Atinod. I get JW to do the MOT while he's giving it a once over so I just give him the connector pipe and job done. The connector is basically just a bit of stainless tube the right diameter for the old exhaust to slip into, and on the other end the ring joint to clamp to the new bit. The Good Fabs silencer is about 6" longer than the original, hence the new can going right up to the 2-to-1 joint Blue Light 05 DVD available NOW! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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