Support Team Shaun_E Posted September 28, 2005 Support Team Share Posted September 28, 2005 Can anyone give me an update on their experiences with the Freestyle suspension kit now its been around for a while? I understand there were some issues with the rear springs rubbing on the dampers - have these been successfully resolved with the wider spring platforms? Do Freestyle now supply the wider platforms.? How are the dampers holding up now that they have been on the car for a while? How repeatable are the damper settings? Rosejointed or not? If yes are any other changes needed? Anything else I need to know? Another question - how do you get Gary to actually work on your car? I see lots of "happy customers" on here but I can't get a date out of him as to when he can do my car. He never returns my calls and when I've managed to catch him at an event he won't agree a date. I had pretty much given up on Freestyle and was looking to buy a set of Nitrons but they are twice the price and I will still need someone to set the car up. If I get a positive response here and can get Gary to agree a date for the work then I might still go the Freestyle route. Yellow SL #32 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankyknuckles Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 http://www.freestylemotorsport.co.uk/ Give him a call at the workshop ? (email address on their site is not used anymore) www.R300.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Sewell Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 During the summer, Gary is working pretty much flat out on racing cars. but now that the season is almost over, he should have more time for private owners. Low tech luddite - xflow and proud! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pelico Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 Shaun, FWIW I will try to do my best to give some answers: I understand there were some issues with the rear springs rubbing on the dampers - have these been successfully resolved with the wider spring platforms? - Never noticed this problem. Do Freestyle now supply the wider platforms.? - as above How are the dampers holding up now that they have been on the car for a while? - fine ! How repeatable are the damper settings? - Well they are click stopped, I am not sure I could tell if a click today is worth the same the next day IYSWIM Rosejointed or not? If yes are any other changes needed? - Rose Joined is an option, Len always suggested it was not worth the money for a road car Anything else I need to know? - the alloy bodied ones are very pretty :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F355GTS Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 Shaun Same as Peter for mine too Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Mupferit Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 I had a rear damper blow it's oil out within the first 1000 miles which was due to poor assembly of the piston retaining collar, but replaced under warranty and appears ok now. The Nitrons certainly look a better made damper IMO and I believe they are considered by many to be superior in performance. I might change to them in the future just because they look the dogs danglies. 😬 I can vouch for Gary's setting up work, he made a big difference to the handling of my car. Brent 2.3 DURATEC SV Reassuringly Expensive R 417.39 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinwhitcher Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 I have the Nitron's they are Really Really good , If you what them set-up, I have all the cornerweights scales etc needed, I live in romsey just a jump down the M3? ps. if you add rose joint's to the Avo's and then alloy bodies, the price differnce is closer than you think, these extra's soon add up + Nitrons customer care is excellent. Martin MW 51 CAT Superlight No.171 now known as:Superlight DVA 207 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Support Team Shaun_E Posted September 28, 2005 Author Support Team Share Posted September 28, 2005 Keep those comments coming. Peter and Marks answers are the sort of thing I'm looking for. Brent - interesting to hear that - what were AVO like to deal with? or did you get it fixed through Gary? Martin - I would love to get the Nitrons but am struggling to justify them in my mind. If I go AVO I won't get the spherical joints to try and keep the cost down. Alloy AVOs are £610 with an extra £120 for spherical joints. Nitrons are £1110. If I succumb to the lure of the Nitrons then I'll take you up on your offer. I should have a car similar to yours then, as my engine comes out this weekend for a trip to DVA - 1.9 K with DTHTBs, VVC head and all the trimmings to get to 200bhp+ Yellow SL #32 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F355GTS Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 Shaun Should have said that one of the adjusters on mine packed up, I sent it Gary, arrived with him on Monday, he sent it to AVO and i had it back on the Wednesday Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Mupferit Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 Shaun, I did deal through Gary as he had supplied them in the first place but, AVO were very slow at sending the replacements after Gary had returned them on my behalf. That was the reason I missed out on bringing the car to the wedding of the century. ☹️ In retrospect, I wish I had gone the extra mile and bought Nitrons pretty much for the reasons I said above ie, visibly better quality and arguably superior performance. Don't misunderstand me, the aluminium AVO's on my car seem to perform reasonably well but I am not totally convinced about their longevity. Mine have the nylon bushes rather than rose joints as I felt the additional compliance they would afford me might be more suitable for mainly road use. Brent 2.3 DURATEC SV Reassuringly Expensive R 417.39 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeE Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 I've got Nitrons and am very happy with them (and they look the dogs 😬) R400 Duratec Build and Modification Pictures here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinwhitcher Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 The thing to bear in mind for dampers on a STD caterham is that the damper hardly moves, therefore the better the valving the better the damping effect. The reason the freestyle pack works so well is that Gary & Len developed a very good match with spring and valving which they keep very close to their chest , Len stated to me that the valving on the Nitron was lots better than AVO's, they have just spent an age getting the best out of what they got Nitrons are superb in the valve area and because the caterhams travel is limited this means that the control of the damping movement is very accerate. Horses for courses, you pays your money....... Martin MW 51 CAT Superlight No.171 now known as:Superlight DVA 207 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Support Team Shaun_E Posted September 28, 2005 Author Support Team Share Posted September 28, 2005 Ooh...Nitron...no AVO...no Nitron...help Can't make up my mind. I guess it will come down to how much my new engine ends up costing. It looks like Nitron really are the best but, if cost is an issue, the Freestyle setup will be better than the standard Caterham with Bilsteins. From everyones comments AVO appear to have slightly patchy quality and customer service. Just to throw a wild card into the mix - has anyone fitted the Caterham track day setup (£1200 with adjustable dampers)? Yellow SL #32 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casbar Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 Went through the same thought patterns last year. Decided that if I was going to change then it would have to be Nitrons! Although I have the adj Bilsteins, and have swapped the springs around, and can say that on Le Sept I was quite happy with the way the car handled, so obviously, my driving isn't upto needing new shocks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ged Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 I'm in a similar position, considering a winter suspension upgrade. Nitrons are probably out of the equation due to cost, making Freestyle or Protech the favourites. I came across the Protech at a show earlier this year, they looked well made with alloy bodies as standard. Has anyone any experience of these dampers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Polisher Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 I bought a used set of Freestyle Avo dampers off Brodie Branch a few weeks ago which looked in decent condition. The spring had been rubbing on the alloy bodies in places but not too severely. When I removed the springs I found that the damping rates were totaly missmatched and bore no relationship to the number of clicks adjusted. I sent them back to Avo via Freestyle for rebuilding and recieved them back within a week, only to find that the front pair are still totaly different in damping rate, mainly on the rebound direction. I will not use them like this and must return them for further work. It does not exactly fill me with confidence in the Avo product as surely the main requirement of an adjustable damper is that the damping rate is proportional to the adjustment. Dave H. Mad about S77ENS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dobuy Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 I have to say that I have had a similar experience to that of the Polisher. I am having a problem with Judder in my front end and, I took off my Freestyle Alloy fronts and noticed that the damping rates on the same number of click was completely different. I took them back to Freestyle to send back to AVO for testing, this they did, supplying a simple Dyno of the damping characteristics. However, I demonstrated to Gary when they came back that the damping rates are still completely different between units. He could not offer a solution. I don't doubt Gary's set-up skills, however I am not impressed with the Avo dampers. Finally I was discussing this with a fairly respected car engineer, who commented that he would not touch AVO's as they had a very cheap internal components. He has Nitron's, next time I will as well! Duratec SV, built in Dubai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Mupferit Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 Neil, have you got the pushrod front suspension? All that I am reading here is only serving to reinforce my doubts about the AVO dampers so think a change to Nitron is on the cards soon. A certain well respected engineer that we both know was pretty scathing about the quality of components used in the AVO's...........after I had bought them unfortunately. ☹️ Oh well, gives me something to upgrade over the winter. 😬 Brent 2.3 DURATEC SV Reassuringly Expensive R 417.39 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dobuy Posted September 29, 2005 Share Posted September 29, 2005 Hi Brent, Yep, same engineer by the sound of it. I have standard SV suspension, with the exception of the Freestyle dampers. I have little doubt that the freestyle front end is good, I just find it pointless having adjustable dampers, when you cannot replicate the damping on both sides. Guess I will have to buy a suspension Dyno to match my fronts Duratec SV, built in Dubai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted September 29, 2005 Share Posted September 29, 2005 I've been running with the frestyle AVO dampers with my own spring rates this season in the sprints , the car is quicker around corners no question with these dampers vs my previous M1 bilstiens . I soon found issues with the freestyle 1.9" rear springs rubbing on the damper bodies and AVO supplied some 2.25 platforms but I had to buy more springs . The odd moment was that I set a personal best time around curborgh sprint course , then found that my rear dampers were set +16 on one side and +4 on the other - I had obviously turned them in the worng direction . I havent had any other complaints with the setup and many of the leading sprinters are also running these dampers Edited by - Dave Jackson on 29 Sep 2005 07:54:32 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Bees Posted September 29, 2005 Share Posted September 29, 2005 Obvious Dave, it's a right-handed circuit 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Support Team Shaun_E Posted September 29, 2005 Author Support Team Share Posted September 29, 2005 So 5 people above have had problems with the AVO dampers varying from minor to catastrophic failure, Gary May agrees the Nitrons are much better, a "well respected engineer" is scathing about the AVO dampers and I have had 2 off-forum offers to sell. Looks like it's got to be Nitrons. I discussed with my better half and she has agreed that I should get the better quality units 😬. They are going to be on the car for a long time as my frenzied bout of upgraditus must soon come to an end ☹️. The car has been rebuilt from bare chassis, the engine goes to DVA this weekend so the dampers are the icing on the cake. Thanks for all your comments folks and sorry to the people who tempted me with their AVOs but the above stories have put me off. Yellow SL #32 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Mupferit Posted September 29, 2005 Share Posted September 29, 2005 A sensible decision I think Shaun. I don't doubt there are some people who run AVO dampers very successfully but for me the clincher has to be the inconsistency of the quality. When I was deciding on my own dampers some 15 months ago, the generally perceived wisdom seemed to indicate that AVO's were the way to go at the time. But as I said earlier, it gives me an excuse to upgrade something on the car now. 😬 Trouble is I could have shot myself in the foot here as one of the reasons I gave Mrs C for spending so much money on the build was that I could spec exactly what I wanted and wouldn't need to upgrade every year ❗ 😳 Brent 2.3 DURATEC SV Reassuringly Expensive R 417.39 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmar Posted September 29, 2005 Share Posted September 29, 2005 just to add some balance - I have been running AVO's on my superlight for about 10 months and have been setting pb's on sprint and hill climb courses that i know well all year...(by in some case + seconds, I am sure there are other factors as well but I have been more than happy with the performance of my car with them on..) I have had no problem with disortion, build quality, repeatability etc etc and I would recomend them when I was looking to replace my billies the nitrons where out of my price range... similar to DaveJ - I too got confused about which way to adjust the dampers, and set my pb at llandow with one rear on +6 and the other on + 14 rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeE Posted September 29, 2005 Share Posted September 29, 2005 Edited by - MikeE on 29 Sep 2005 13:23:15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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