Alex Wong1697456877 Posted December 3, 2001 Share Posted December 3, 2001 There is no fixed point of resistance to roll. The only resistance comes from the other side so the overall resistance to roll is affected by the position of the adjustable link on both sides. You're right - it is getting to late for this. smile.gif Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Wong1697456877 Posted December 3, 2001 Share Posted December 3, 2001 Sod's bloody law. Just contemplating going to bed and A/E bleep me!!!! Bugger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted December 3, 2001 Share Posted December 3, 2001 The force will be evenly distributed, but the car will be tilted to one side if there is torsional force through the ARB at rest. My laymans thinking says to me that this would indeed favour cornering in one direction over another, as body roll would have the effect of levelling the car off in one direction, and increasing the angle of lean in the other.....(Nascar stylee) and it's too late for this, I'm off to bed............. Edited by - Blatman on 3 Dec 2001 01:02:12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JP Posted December 3, 2001 Share Posted December 3, 2001 Bugger, up again! Alex, Bet you haven't got an on call room without a phone! Sorry, I can't think of a useful contribution to the ARB topic at this time, but I'm working on it. James. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyedwardc Posted December 3, 2001 Share Posted December 3, 2001 This is all a bit academic, they're all too stiff for the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelspeed Posted December 3, 2001 Share Posted December 3, 2001 Whoops been away for the weekend and missed all this!! I agree I should have said 10 rather than 12. But in mitigation there's actually 11 settings as you could disconnect it completely at one end..... OK bit of a cop out that. And yes, as others have said, 1:4 is the same as 4:1. And yes also, 1:3 may well be exactly the same torsional stiffness as 2:2. You'd need some hairy mathematics to demonstrate it or more sensibly hold one end rigid and pull on the other end with a spring balance to quantfy the various potential settings. If you can't be bothered then 1:1, 2:2, 3:3 and 4:4 will give you 4 coarse adjustments that will go from hard to soft in a known order (but not necessarily in constant increments of stiffness). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted December 3, 2001 Share Posted December 3, 2001 I now transfer my alegence to the mighty Chelspeed who is in fact correct at 11 settings. Now if we were to create an scale index of settings from softest to stiffest, would this scale remain the same if the actual bar diameter changed??? Fat Arn The NOW PROVEN R500 Eaterid=red> See the Lotus Seven Club 4 Counties Area Website hereid=green> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain chaos Posted December 3, 2001 Share Posted December 3, 2001 Oh Arnie, He did say that the 11th was a cop out. Remember, we are talikng about settings of the bar...is disconnected really a setting? (it's a different set up but not bar setting) (Scrambling to regain cred!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wg_mulholland Posted December 4, 2001 Share Posted December 4, 2001 And you can disconnect the bar at both ends- and hence remove the frictional resistance (extra damping force of the bar in the blocks)-so thats 12-come on!Who can raise that! Is there anyone else more hair splittingly pedantic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisd Posted December 4, 2001 Share Posted December 4, 2001 I've been looking for more info on rear ARB settings, as I've only recently realised that mine can be altered (still wet behind the ears with all things seven confused.gif ) This may be a stupid question - but which setting is best for general road use if 1:1 is both bolts towards the front of the car? Sorry my contribution is not of a more academic nature blush.gif cheers Chris Edited by - chrisd on 4 Dec 2001 21:17:25 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Wong1697456877 Posted December 4, 2001 Share Posted December 4, 2001 Basically, the further forward you attach the links, the more resistance to roll there is at the back - ie this stiffens the bar. This makes the car understeer less and oversteer more, and also makes the ride harder over bumps. It has quite a dramatic effect on the handling and most people start on setting 3-3 (to use your system) and then adjust to suit. Mine is on 4-4. There is no "right" setting as it's only one in a vast range of factors that affect handling. Start soft and adjust up to suit. Cheers, Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelspeed Posted December 5, 2001 Share Posted December 5, 2001 The mighty Chelspeed - like it!! Thanks Arnie! If you disconnect one end then the bar stays in place but has zero anti roll effect. If you disconnect both ends then it drops down and could foul all sorts of important things, like brake pipes. Not big or clever. Don't try this at home. If you must disconnect both ends then take it off completely. By the way, who posted this thread originally? Have we answered his question at all or just hijacked the thread and gone off at a tangent.... oh well who cares? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted December 5, 2001 Share Posted December 5, 2001 I was bored today so I stuffed some 130lbs springs on my rear end instead of the 200lbs ones and set my anti roll to 1:1 (stiffest) on a 7/16" bar. Result?? Spanking! no excessive roll and a ride I forgot any decent Seven could provide. Traction?? Amazing! I really thought it would bottom out and roll like a boat! Glad I tried it now! Fat Arn The NOW PROVEN R500 Eaterid=red> See the Lotus Seven Club 4 Counties Area Website hereid=green> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Wong1697456877 Posted December 5, 2001 Share Posted December 5, 2001 Now try some 180lb fronts! teeth.gif Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony pashley Posted December 5, 2001 Share Posted December 5, 2001 A word of caution - regarding the advice given to 'chrisd' re bolts nearer front or rear of car - do we know whether he has a front- or rear-facing bar? If working from theory rather than empiricism this may be reasonably important... Edited by - tony pashley on 5 Dec 2001 09:52:08 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted December 5, 2001 Share Posted December 5, 2001 Er all bars are rear facing are they not?? Fat Arn The NOW PROVEN R500 Eaterid=red> See the Lotus Seven Club 4 Counties Area Website hereid=green> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Why am I here Posted December 5, 2001 Share Posted December 5, 2001 I wonder if you might take a gentle pointer from a non seven owning non member, (and I shall not make a habit of this, this is after all your forum) But don't worry, I've had a few looks at your rear roll bars. If you were to set the bar asymmetrically say 1 and 4 (and 4 and 1 would be different) you will get fine adjustment of roll stiffness but will you not also get a torque reaction in bump or ride height changes? The side with the setting closest to the pivot point will try and rotate the bar more than the other side, but the other side will have a much greater lever moment and will over come. I assume most are reading this at work, get an old business card, draw a spot in the middle and a spot at the left (ARB holes in the 1:4 position) drawing pin it to the a board on the right. Move the left hand dot up and inch, note how much less the movement will be for the other dot. If anyone has a Seven handy if you could jack up the rear, stands under the chassis, whip off the shocks and set the bar at 1:4 jack the DD tube at the A frame joint. I'd love to see what happens to the two wheels. I'm sure they would not go up and down together. Add this "indy car" effect to the passive rear steer and might I suggest anyone trying some of the more interesting settings does so with some caution. Anyway as the guy at the top said widetrack doesn't he want a front ARB? I hope to remain a one post wonder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain chaos Posted December 7, 2001 Share Posted December 7, 2001 Arnie, I've just put 180lb rear springs on my Spax as suggested and now I've got to get some 130's...my bank balance can't keep up with you!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andygriffiths Posted December 7, 2001 Author Share Posted December 7, 2001 Yes it was a front ARB and i have decided to go for the Juno one with wide track instead of the standard one from Caterham.So thanks for the usefull replies and not so useful ones!!! Andy G GRIFF id=red> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted December 7, 2001 Share Posted December 7, 2001 Gary, I think the 130's may prove a little soft so I'd go somewhere around 150 -16- if I were you.... Fat Arn The NOW PROVEN R500 Eaterid=red> See the Lotus Seven Club 4 Counties Area Website hereid=green> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain chaos Posted December 7, 2001 Share Posted December 7, 2001 Arnie, I'm leaving the 180's on until I get it on the road. By then you might be back up to stiffer springs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveK Posted December 8, 2001 Share Posted December 8, 2001 Arnie So why does a car with 120 lb rear springs hold the course record around curbourgh. And a vauxhall at that which we all no understeers biggrin.gif Spring rates are a compromise with roll bars as well depending on how you wish the car to handle cheers dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted December 8, 2001 Share Posted December 8, 2001 Dave, I think its a compromise situ. Soft springs work better on the road and on "slow" track events as traction is vastly improved. On faster circuits where the cornering forces are more sustained and severe and where the surfaces are generally much smoother the harder setup seems to work better. Or maybe I have no idea. Anyway, it was you who sold me the stiff springs years ago!! Fat Arn The NOW PROVEN R500 Eaterid=red> See the Lotus Seven Club 4 Counties Area Website hereid=green> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davey Bee Posted December 9, 2001 Share Posted December 9, 2001 Arnie, I'm just fitting Leda adjustable shocks and 170lb rear springs 300lb fronts, following James Whiting advice, but I'm now worried that I may have spoilt the ride of my car. The car will be back on the road tomorrow if I am not to busy, then I would like to get it set up by someone on a flat floor. You've obviously played around with different springs, what are your thoughts. I'm also fitting Juno adj'ARB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain chaos Posted December 9, 2001 Share Posted December 9, 2001 Davey, Whilst Arnie is contemplating a reply...what car have you got? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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