93 1400K ss Exhaust & Overheating

[Brucey]

Hi chaps, a couple more questions to get my moneys worth!

 

1. I have an 'internal' exhaust fitted to my 7. 2 pipes run under the car to a silencer positioned across the back with 2 exhausts exiting near each rear wheel. Questions:

a) will I notice any difference in performance fitting a standard side exhaust? (1 is available on this site for around £200 c/w cat).

b) does a 93 factory built car require a cat? (I think my existing exhaust has a cat fitted judging by the 'swan vesta pong' after a good thrash!)

Apart from ground clearance (just replaced 16" with 14" wheels), very hot passenger footwell and difficulty jacking the back up (with the silencer under the petrol tank), I quite like it because my wife can't burn her leg and it doesn't give you a headache on the motorway!

c) will I notice a significant difference fitting an aftermarket performance system? (Performance exhaust place in Ashford is only 13 miles away, but my credit card wouldn't stand a visit there!)

 

2. My temp usually sits around 90 deg C. Fan kicks in at around 92 (I can hear it running). I have noticed recently that motoway driving at over 80mph makes the temp just touch 100 deg C. As soon as I slow down, it drops back to 90. I did fit course mesh to the front grill and will test the car with it removed, but it used to be o.k on motorways with it fitted.

What else should I be looking at. If the thermostat or water pump is faulty, wouldn't it run continiously hot? I will start replacing these if removing the grill mesh doesn't work. Water/air blockage etc doesn't seem likely as all hoses and heater get hot and I haven't 'played' with the coolant system recently. Would head gaskit cause this? although it doesn't seem to have any other symptoms. Any ideas? Should I start messing about with rad flush? (car has done 35K miles).

 

As usual, any help would be appreciated.

 

Bruce.

 

 

Brucey

[Mick Day]

Bruce

 

1. Don't fit a standard 4:1 under bonnett exhaust but save up for a proper 4:1 equal length primary system (the sort you get from the performance exhaust place or Caterham). The latter gives better performance. 93 car doesn't require a cat; indeed your present cat is probaly "dead" as they have a limited life.

 

2. Assuming your car is a 1.4 K I had exactly the same experience regarding water temps. Cured by going to a bigger rad.

 

[shn7]

1a) Yes most likely. Certain with a PowerSpeed (presume that's who you're referring to) you will. I went from std 4-1 inside the sideskin to PowerSpeed 4-2-1 side exit recently and noticed the benefit especially in mid range acceleration.

1b) Have a read here. Should help.

1c) See 1a above.

 

2) Have you topped up the oil lately? Presuming this is a wet sump car then the level should be checked with the engine warm and running. Overfilling can result in the crank splashing around in the excess oil (windage). This results in high temps.

 

Steve.

[Brucey]

Thanks Steve and Mick.

 

I think a little visit to Powerspeed may be on the books if I can justify spending £500 to get a little bit more power. The old system has to be worth £100 just in scrap!

 

I have checked the oil with the engine running and it is on the special Caterham dip stick 'notch'. My only slight concern is that I had to put 5 litres of oil in after changing the filter and foam thingy. This was after Caterham told me a wet sump K should only require 4 litres!

 

When you say 'fit a bigger rad', I guess this has to be sourced at huge expense from Caterham? I may give rad flush a go, but reading this section indicates that bleeding the system afterwards could be a nightmare!

 

Brucey

[Dartmoor7]

'Warm and running' does not apply to a standard 1993 car with the original all-plastic Rover dipstick with notch cut by Caterham.

My 1994 1400 is at 38,000 miles, always checked cold, no problems.

 

This is what I got from Caterham:

"Jerry, you only need to check the oil with the engine running if you have

an anti cav tank fitted to your car. Otherwise, you'll be fine"

 

This from Len Unwin:

"When I was at Caterham the original dipstick was a modified Rover, which we cut a notch in. When the Apollo came in I noticed that the oil in the sump was very low when the car was running so I recommend to Reg. who designed the Apollo that oil should be checked running i.e. when the Apollo is full. We then made the vvc, which had problems running bearings, but when checked running, the oil was ok, on investigation we found that the vvc dipstick was different to the standard k due to the amount of oil the head retains."

 

Jerry Parker

L7 SVN

1400 Supersport

[Dartmoor7]

PS. In theory, 1993 factory-built DOES require a cat:

 

"The catalyst test is part of the MOT test for petrol engined passenger cars first used on and after 1 August 1992."

 

 

Jerry Parker

L7 SVN

1400 Supersport

[SLR No.77]

... but not if amateur build

 

Stu.

 

[Dartmoor7]

Bruce says his is factory-built.

 

Jerry Parker

L7 SVN

1400 Supersport

[SLR No.77]

Agree, just pointing it out before any other owners panick - I remember my 1st MOT on my 1400 and I found I was also receiving mixed information on teh requirement for a cat

 

Stu.

 

[Mick Day]

Quote

"When you say 'fit a bigger rad', I guess this has to be sourced at huge expense from Caterham? I may give rad flush a go, but reading this section indicates that bleeding the system afterwards could be a nightmare."

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bruce

 

At some point you will have to change the coolant so this would be the best time to change the rad. Maybe someone upgrading to an ali rad would have an old style "bigger rad" on offer?

 

[SLR No.77]

Bruce - some years ago I felt that the cooling on my 1400SS (now 1800) was not adequate. Fitted a triple pass steel rad and now it's rock solid.

 

Put a wanted out for one and I guess one will appear pretty soon - fits all the same mountings and fan etc.

 

Stu.

 

[Brucey]

Once again, thanks guys.

 

I took the mesh out of the grill today and took the misses for a blat down the M20. The temperature still rose above 95deg at 80mph. It got hotter still when her hat blew off!

I have now removed about 3/4l of oil so it reads just above the 'notch' with the engine off and standing for a while. I will check it again tomorrow. Thinking about it, the problem started after I changed the oil & foam baffle. I did wonder at the time why I had to put 5l in when I only took 4 l out! I came to the conclusion that the other litre ended up in my hair when I removed the sump!

 

I will also follow your advice and put a wanted ad in. What sort of price should I be paying for a good second hand tripple pass steel rad? can I get a pattern new one (ie Triumph spitfire etc) or get the existing one rebuilt to a higher spec?

 

Brucey

[Sheds Moderator]

If you are resourceful, consider that a lot of kit builders use a Punto or Polo rad as they are small light and cheap at motor factors. (50ish). If this is inadequate then piggybacking another rad, say one from a bike or an intercooler rad from a Vauxhall Astra TD) will do the trick. Remember that a rad is a rad is a rad - they come in different sizes, configurations and capacities but they can be interchanged, within reason, between cars. The cooling requirements for a 130 bhp Punto/Polo Gti (say) will be very close to those for a 130 bhp 7 after all.

[Neil A]

My car used to sit at just over 80. Then it started to sit just under 100 when driving motorways. Both Caterham and Redline said there was nothing wrong, but now it is having its head gasket replaced due to failure. Make of that what you will.

[Brucey]

Neil,

I'm assuming you have a K series 7. This is indeed slightly concerning. I took it for another blat tonight (with the 'modified' oil level) and the temperature didn't go above 95 even when pushing it (well there was a Porsh 911 in the middle lane!). The temerature dropped back to 90 as soon as I slowed down from 90 back to 70. This is still higher than I would like, but I guess I will have to wait and see if the problem gets worse. If it remains stable I may take another 1/2 l out (to bring it to the top of the notch at rest) and look for a bigger rad. If it gets worse, I'll start looking at the 'how to change a head gaskit' section in my Rover manual. I may as well look at the water pump and cam belt sections at the same time!

 

 

Brucey

[SLR No.77]

S/H steel triple pass rads (ex SLR) usually change hands for around £60 to £70

 

Stu.

 

[Dartmoor7]

Bruce,

You take 500ml oil out and get an immediate improvement, why not take the other 500ml out to make your oil level correct, (on the notch, cold, engine off, according to the sources in my post above) and see if you get a further temperature reduction.

Why go looking to spend money when it may not be necessary?

 

Jerry Parker

L7 SVN

1400 Supersport

[Brucey]

Jerry,

 

My next job is to get the oil level back to the mark on the dip stick (I recon i need to remove about 1/2 l more) with the car level and at rest. Logic says that if it ran o.k before I changed the oil, this is the area I should be looking at.

 

If this does cure the problem, I will still look at upgrading the rad in the future (when a suitable priced one turns up) as the existing unit seems to be running near its limit!

 

All of your advise is much appreciated and helps me identify areas to look at.

 

As a natural pessimist, these forums also give me the opportunity to worry about things I hadn't even considered! You are quite right in reminding me 'If it isn't broken, don't fix it'. Thankyou.

 

Bruce.

 

Brucey

[patneale]

Both my Caterhams 1.6 and new 1.8 (SV) (19,000 miles) have had this problem of getting hot on long runs. CC say there is no problem, but i did not like the fan running most of the time and the temp getting towards 100 C. All water ways totally clean.

The standard thermostat is 88 C one in K series so the fan cut in temp is very close at around 92-94 C. CC have little idea of what modern motoring is like for our cars on the road.. They think all are hairing around circuits at speed when there is plently of airflow through the radiator and the engine area.

It only needs a few traffic jams and slow running to get everything very hot and the fan struggles to keep the temperature down. I went to Minster Engines for a visit in 2003. (who build the R500 engines and other high powered engines.) They pointed out the importance of keeping the K series cool for a trouble free life....... thus they fit 74 C thermostats to all their engines. I bought one for £7 from them including P and P and the result is most satisfactory...... Just under 80 C gentle running and 80 C used hard... Fan hardly ever comes on even in traffic now.... One can always put back the old 88 C one when the cold weather comes or blank off half the radiator with cardboard if it starts running too cool. As 4 cars had alternator troubles in this years St Moritz run including myself, I have made up a simple heat shield to protect the alternator from the exhaust heat, which it great when stuck in a jam. Again CC said there was no problem , but all Rovers have heatshields on their cars as standard so you can make up your own mind.