1.4k Dry Sump to 1.8k engine

[TomB]

Morning

 

My winter project is to build a 1.8 using all the bits from my 1.4 attached to a short 1.8. I want to take the DS gear off my 1.4 & attach it to the new engine.

 

Will the purple scavenge pump be suitable, or will I need a gold pump? Ive been advised by DVA that I probably will need a gold pump, which is concerning as Im trying to do the job on a budget of a £1000, if I need a gold pump, this will blow a huge hole in the budget as I belive they are nearly £400.

 

Can the purple pump be fettled to work better? Eg a smaller pulley to make it go faster?

 

Where do the DS pumps come from? Im guessing an oil pump is an oil pump, so might be available from elsewhere for less money.

 

I know its a long shot, but does anyone have one for sale for a more affordable price?

 

Advice appreciated

 

Tom

 

 

[oilyhands]

The reason I mentioned the gold pump is because I have personally seen oiling based failures on systems with the purple pump where the scavenge pump couldnt keep up with the demands of the pressure pump. Looking at the gearing of the PP compared to the GP it is obvious that it is driven more slowly than the GP so I have suggested that maybe a smaller pulley to drive it faster plus some judicious fettling of the ports in the pump might help.

 

Where there is any doubt I prefer to err on the side of caution. It may be that Toms engine is perfectly happy with the PP but I'd prefer him not find out via a wrecked engine.

 

Oily

[Allen Payne]

Both the pumps are made by Titan

[TomB]

Dave, ws useful to speak to you last night. I hadnt considered whether Id need a new DS pump, so Im glad you made me aware of it at this early stage of finding bits. I wouldnt like to find out about it later on by damaging the bearings. Im not so commited yet, as I havnt even got the short engine yet. Ill draft an email to you listing the bits I think Ill need from you, then you can advise how much it will cost & Ill take it from there. WIll probably be after I go on holiday next week.

 

Allen, do Titan sell to individuals, or is my only route through Caterham? Ive looked at their website, but there is no indication of whether they sell direct.

 

 

 

[Allen Payne]

I think they will if the cost is above a certain amount, It might not save you very much once you've got all the other bits'n'pieces you'll need

[TomB]

I have spoken to Caterham, Minister & Titan this morning.

 

Titan will sell me gold pump for £338+vat, Caterham charge £390+vat

 

Minister say that the purple pump will _probably_ be OK for a 1.8k SS. They introduced the Gold pump for the higher revving R400 & 500 engines. Given that mine is a road car with the odd track day, he said is would _probably_ be OK. For a belt & braces approach, the Gold pump would be best, however the chap said the gold pump may be over top for much of the time, & only be of real benefit at sustain very RPM, which the car doesnt do on teh road or the odd track day.

 

CAterham more or less support this view. They said they introduced the gold pump during the years of teh VHPD race series, when with the cars on slicks, they were getting problems. The purple pump wasnt upto it, but for fast road & the odd track day, it should be fine.

 

Down the line, if I add TBs or upgrade the engine further, I may have to get a gold pump, but for now, it looks like a should be able to use the purple pump.

 

Id still be interested in hearing from you if you have one for sale.

 

 

 

Edited by - TomB on 11 Aug 2005 13:26:33

[Rob Walker]

Gold pump is now cheaper than the purple so its a no brainer

[TomB]

But I think I can use my existing purple one

[SLR No.77]

Yes you can

[Delberts Wallet]

Just out of interest how much is a new gold pump?

 

Gareth

 

Blue and Carbon 6 Speed Supersport with new wheels

[TomB]

See above

[Delberts Wallet]

D'oh, missed that, thanks

 

Gareth

 

Blue and Carbon 6 Speed Supersport with new wheels

[oilyhands]

If you are going to use the purple pump, remember it isn't new.. just keep your eye on the oil pressure..

 

Oily

[TomB]

Dave, can the old pump be opened up & refurbished?

 

 

[I reply to every thread]

False economy - sell the purple & buy a gold - with a K series & dry sump you've got enough to worry about with, airlocks, overheating, head gaskets & belts without adding a slightly dubious pump into the equation. So what if the gold is over engineered for 90% of the time? Better than than the purple being under engineered for 1% of the time because that is all it takes to go bang. Once you embark on the project you'll discover other costs anyway so an extra couple of hundred quid on this is money well spent.

[TomB]

Aves, you make alot of sense. How much can I sell a purple pump for to offset against the cost of gold one?

 

Gold is much more bling after all....

[Nick Green]

Tom,

 

Would anybody buy it after the slagging it has got here ? Ok, there's eBay...

 

My 1.8K SS-ish has had the purple pump for 6 years. Is it about to go pop ?

 

IIRC, Dave Jackson's 210 bhp 1.6K used the PP for several years, though he has gone to the GP for his 1.9. But as the whole engine changed, that is understandable.

 

The choice is your's

 

You will also need the reinforced hose and mounting bracket from the sump to the pump.

 

Nick.

 

Edited by - Nick Green on 11 Aug 2005 16:52:43

[I reply to every thread]

Yup - ebay - After all I got £175 for a second hand VX wet sump pan *thumbup*

[TomB]

Nick, is yours a stock 1.8k SS, with the normal rev limit? If its working on yours, I guess there is no reason why it wouldnt on mine!

[SLR No.77]

Tom,

 

PPs are fitted to many SLRs and are working fine. You're not going to rev an 1800SS as high as an SLR therefore oil issues are less likely. Also, you could fit a smaller pulley and still be within the max rev limit that would be suggested for the pump itself. My choice would be to stick with the PP and complete your conversion before shelling out on a GP.

 

Stu.