CHRIS CLARK Posted November 11, 2001 Share Posted November 11, 2001 Those of you with this device. Can you please tell me how long it takes for your oil pressure gauge to register from turning the key/pushing the button (if it starts pretty quickly and doesn't churn over for ages!). This is of course on a cold, recently unrun engine ! TIA CPC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Dent Posted November 11, 2001 Share Posted November 11, 2001 Chris, it can take quite a while. Last time I did this it would have been a minimum of 45 secs cranking before anything happened. Cant be sure with the time as I wasnt there with a stop watch. Seem to recall do it in bursts. Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted November 11, 2001 Share Posted November 11, 2001 Chris, It takes about 4-5 seconds on my 1.8SS (I've just this minute tried it!), accompanied often by a little light tappet music. Before I fitted the tank, oil pressure appeared practically instantaneously. JV Edited by - John Vine on 11 Nov 2001 19:16:04 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murph7355 Posted November 11, 2001 Share Posted November 11, 2001 Mines the same as JV's. Push the button, it starts (usually) then I count to five-ish and the warning light goes out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHRIS CLARK Posted November 11, 2001 Author Share Posted November 11, 2001 Thanks guys. Before the A/tank was fitted the original 1400 'K' pressure was instant. The 1800 'K' now fitted has that 4 sec delay. I can't get used to that. Have fitted a one way valve in the return line to the cam box today (Thanks Peter) I think this'll cure the 'problem'. I checked the oil level in the tank before the cold start up and it was 190mm below the level of the conical top!!! Add to that I have an oil/water cooler in-line too and it had really got me wondering/worrying. I'll leave it for a couple of days and then see if it has worked. I hope so as I like the instant readingthumbsup.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Walker Posted November 12, 2001 Share Posted November 12, 2001 Chris, Depends on how long the car has been stood, or if its the start up after an oil change. I found this delay in reaching oil pressure very worrying and cannot do you engine a lot of good. Peter C has fitted a one way ball valve into the bleed off line to the cam caver which he recons solves this problem. The ball valve prevents the tank draining back into the sump. The other problem with this Apollo tank is oil temerature, it takes up to 15 mins to get your oil to temp and if you go on track or cruise at 80 Mph or above 110C plus oil temps are reached. I have junked the Apollo tank. It definately helps get rid of air bubbles in your oil but the potential down side is against its use IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Payne Posted November 12, 2001 Share Posted November 12, 2001 Can someone explain the flow of oil with an Apollo tank fitted? Without the tank I assume that the flow is from the pickup pipe, via the oil filter to the pump and then onto the engine. Where does the Apollo tank fit into this? Also if these one-way valves are a good idea whereabouts do you buy them? Thanks Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Walker Posted November 12, 2001 Share Posted November 12, 2001 Allen, Oil is picked up from the sump in the normal way pulled through the oil pump pumped fed to the outside of the oil filter passes through the filter then fed to the bottom end and a small feed off up to the head. With Apollo a sandwich plate is fitted twix the oilfilter and the housing. Two hoses are taken off this sandwich plate the flow is connected to the large connection near the top of the Apollo tank and the other hose near the bottom of the tank returns the de-airiated oil back to the filter. The froth or airiated oil will have rizen to the top of the conical tank and have been bled off through the small line into the cam cover. Quite clever Eh! Edited by - Rob walker on 12 Nov 2001 11:03:14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Payne Posted November 12, 2001 Share Posted November 12, 2001 Rob, Do you mean the oil flow is sump -> pump -> top of Apollo -> bottom of Apollo -> filter -> engine I can't see how that would work unless the Apollo tank is presurised? I can see this working sump -> top of Apollo -> bottom of Apollo -> filter -> pump -> engine. assuming the pump sucks oil through the oil filter. Which is correct? Thanks Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Walker Posted November 12, 2001 Share Posted November 12, 2001 The Apollo is pressurized, hence the loss of 0.5 bar oil pressure due to bleed off back to the cam cover and the prolonged time it takes for the oil pressure gauge to register oil pressure. The tank has to fill completely before it can pressurize .Got it now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Payne Posted November 12, 2001 Share Posted November 12, 2001 Thanks Rob - I was assuming that because of the feed to the rocker box that the system couldn't have been pressurised. Regards Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted November 12, 2001 Share Posted November 12, 2001 To pose Allen's other question again, where can I obtain a suitable one-way valve? JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Heaton Posted November 12, 2001 Share Posted November 12, 2001 I was considering fitting an oil accumulator (accusump) as an alternative to the Apollo tank. Has anyone got any experience of these ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHRIS CLARK Posted November 12, 2001 Author Share Posted November 12, 2001 Well, I have found that after having had the engine stood for 28hours without running (in a cold garage) that the time taken to get the oil pressure to show on the gauge was...............instant. No delay at all. This is due to a one way valve fitted in the cambox return line. Not a cheap excercise, but worth it for my peace of mind! The parts came from 'Think Automotive', Isleworth. These nice people are the ones giving Se7en listers and the L7C members 33.3 percent discount on the oil/water cooler 'kits'. I don't have a part no. for the valve, but it is not a ball valve; it is a sprung loaded flap valve. I saw a cut-away of one while I was there and it was very neat! It has a different thread size than the std. return pipe so I had to change the 90* elbow and get a reducer.The hole in the cambox needs enlarging along with a bit of filing of the ali (retaining) backnut etc. If anyone wants a photo I can so oblige! Rob. I was also worrying (comes with running in a new engine as std. eh?) about my overall pressure. I put it down to the new sender I fitted being a little different from the old one. Completely forgot about this pressure 'bleed' into the cambox! Ahh, I can relax a little againthumbsup.gif PS Ask Mick Smith's opinion about Accusumps. Also can be supplied via 'Think Automotive' strangely. Not really recommended for 'K's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murph7355 Posted November 12, 2001 Share Posted November 12, 2001 A gent called Mick Smith did on a 220bhp K and is now rebuilding the bottom end. I *could* be being very unfair in pointing the finger at the Accusump, but I think Mick always had some doubts about it. I believe he's going dry sump next. If you get an oil/water heat exchanger the oil heats up nicely and the temps stabilise nicely too. Unless you have a dry sump I wouldn't be inclined to run a K without, especially if used hard and/or on track. The build up of pressure I currently just live with (don't rev the engine more than a gnat's until it's up), but may look into the one way valve thing if Pace's dry sump doesn't materialise for some time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHRIS CLARK Posted November 12, 2001 Author Share Posted November 12, 2001 Forgot to say on last posting! Before I started this modification trail I checked the oil level WITHIN the Apollo tank when it had stood for a week without an engine run. Having removed the top union I dipped it. The level was 190 mm (yes, 190) below the top of the can.!!!!!!!!!!!! That's a long way down and equates to about half its capacity or so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Payne Posted November 12, 2001 Share Posted November 12, 2001 Chris, A photo, or any other details of the valve, would be appreciated. Which way does the valve work - Am I right in assumming it stop air following into the tank? Thanks Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted November 13, 2001 Share Posted November 13, 2001 Chris, I'd appreciate a photo. If digital, perhaps you could email it to my profile address? If good old paper, please say and I'll forward you my address. You also say it's "not a cheap exercise". Just how expensive is "not cheap"? Re the oil level in the tank, I guess (without the valve) the oil just flows back to the sump until the level in both is equal? JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHRIS CLARK Posted November 13, 2001 Author Share Posted November 13, 2001 John. Yer dead right. The oil finds it's own level (as fluids do!). Pic on way ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murph7355 Posted November 14, 2001 Share Posted November 14, 2001 Chris - come clean on how much moolah you swine. We need to know how much to haggle Think for smile.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAUL MARRIOTT Posted November 15, 2001 Share Posted November 15, 2001 Has anybody installed and used one of the water to oil coolers on the track? I'm happy with oil temps on the road, usually sits nicely at 85-90 when warmed up, but at Snetterton I got it up to 120!!! Also has anybody got any photos they could mail me please ( paul_marriott@westlb.co.uk). I've spoken to Think who sell the NRT kit at £55.61 + VAT. Oil cooler kit £123.52 + VAT. It would seem that oil to air cooling is cheaper and does the job. But I've been advised that the air - oil is plumbed into the bottom hose of the apollo while the water - oil is plumbed into the top hose???? Paul M. K7 PDM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WILL FLY Posted November 15, 2001 Share Posted November 15, 2001 I did the trial installation of the TA Laminova oil/water cooler on a wet sump K series. See www.willfly.net and follow the modifications link from the menu and then select the link to oil/water intercooler. I've not had the car on the track since fitting but warm up time is longer and it takes ages to get to 80C on the road, it sits at 65 for a while. there's a photo on the web site, I have more if needed, mail to roybooth@willfly.net if you want photos, be warned they're big blush.gif See willfly.net for more info. If you don't spin you ain't trying smile.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WILL FLY Posted November 15, 2001 Share Posted November 15, 2001 Chris, are we talking about a non return valve on the apollo breather which goes to the cam cover, if so 55 quid seems extortionate. Can I have a picture by e-mail please. Ta See willfly.net for more info. If you don't spin you ain't trying smile.gif Edited by - will fly on 15 Nov 2001 14:46:39 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHRIS CLARK Posted November 15, 2001 Author Share Posted November 15, 2001 My experience with the laminova kit in the top hose can only be related to the new 1800 during 'running in' period, but it makes temp much quicker and hold a good 80-82* as opposed to the old engines 76-78*. Same sensors, rad etc. Nothing like a bit of direct contradiction Roy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murph7355 Posted November 15, 2001 Share Posted November 15, 2001 Mine also makes temperature quicker and runs at about 70-80deg pretty much constantly. On track, thrashing the nads off it in very hot ambient temps the oil temp went up to 90-95ish but no higher. Possibly worth noting that I also have the bigger rad and (contrary to conventional wisdom) I don't run a thermostat. It's fitted to a 200bhp K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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