AMMO Posted November 10, 2001 Share Posted November 10, 2001 The Zetec I'm currently building for every day use will not have a cam belt cover. A friend who builds rally engines, amongst other things, said you either have a hermetically sealed cover or nothing at all. With the sealed cover nothing gets in, full stop. If it did have any gaps, whatever gets in would probably rattle around for ever with a very slim chance of getting out. With a completely open cam belt whatever gets in gets out with the same ease. My question is: have any of you running an open cam belt with a twin cam Ford had any belt failures due to debris being caught between the belt and pulleys? Thanks. AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted November 10, 2001 Share Posted November 10, 2001 Ammo . The question is - is it worth it ?? . For the sake of being able to see the pretty vernier wheels under the nose cone against the risk of getting a stone thrown up into the belt from either the road or the gravel trap and possibly wrecking several thousand ££ worth of engine ?? The k series has a cam cover with a pretty good seal , there wasnt much dust/debris in mine when I first removed it after 7000 miles . I would say run with a cam belt cover , no doubt there are many that have been fortunate enough not to have suffered an incident but I wouldnt take the risk . Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted November 10, 2001 Author Share Posted November 10, 2001 Dave Thanks for your opinion. The engine I bought didn't have a cam belt cover on. Maybe I should start looking for one. What about all the BDR and Zetecs that run without a cover. Any problems anyone? AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julians Posted November 10, 2001 Share Posted November 10, 2001 I have a zetec without a cover, no problems so far (touch wood). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul D Jones Posted November 10, 2001 Share Posted November 10, 2001 My friend saw a hole in a Zetec belt and another jump a tooth in seven type cars both caused by stones for about £15 for all three plastic covers unless you drive with the bonet off [Alex] you can not see the pullies when driving Thats what you have the car for? The valves are about £8.00 each set of OE pistons £60.00 plus gaskets belt plastic pullies and time not driving the car while its in bits Your choice you pays your money you takes your chances Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted November 11, 2001 Author Share Posted November 11, 2001 Thanks for your replies. I put the engine together today but have not put the timing belt on or timed in the cams yet. Think I will get hold of a cover as I intend to do some serious miles and don't like the idea of being stuck in the middle of nowhere with a dead engine. Even if the risk is minimal I'd rather not take the chance. AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julians Posted November 11, 2001 Share Posted November 11, 2001 Ammo, are you using the raceline alternator setup, if so I think there may be clearance problems with the standard zetec cam cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted November 11, 2001 Author Share Posted November 11, 2001 Julians Good point, I hadn't thought of that. I haven't got as far as sorting out the alternator yet. I believe the Raceline one is mounted on their nice wet sump. I have a standard ali sump which has been cut, baffled and welded. I will probably have to make the alternator bracket myself. Can't decide which side of the engine to mount it on. Still have to sort out a poly-vee belt and pulley. What do Westfilds have for an alternator setup? Do they retain the belt cover? AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted November 11, 2001 Author Share Posted November 11, 2001 Julians Good point, I hadn't thought of that. I haven't got as far as sorting out the alternator yet. I believe the Raceline one is mounted on their nice wet sump. I have a standard ali sump which has been cut, baffled and welded. I will probably have to make the alternator bracket myself. Can't decide which side of the engine to mount it on. Still have to sort out a poly-vee belt and pulley. What do Westfilds have for an alternator setup? Do they retain the belt cover? AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHRIS CLARK Posted November 12, 2001 Share Posted November 12, 2001 Ammo. It seems you've decided on the cam belt cover. I have heard your original arguement levelled at 'K's too. If a stone does get into a covered belt then it will just bounce around creating havo, whereas an open one lets it fly out. All I can say is that it looks great with the 'open' style for a short while, but if you intend to use, say, Piper type variable pulleys in the sexy anodised finish then they won't last too long. The finish wears V.quickly with what appears to be the dust that is around on a standard English road. Add a bit of damp weather and the grinding paste effect takes over. I guess the ideal answer is the hermetically sealed version with a clear plastic top window section !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted November 12, 2001 Author Share Posted November 12, 2001 Chris Hope not to be looking under the bonnet much, so not really bothered about the looks. I won't be using vernier pulleys as the originals, although heavy, are infinately variable anyway. Actually, if I have a belt cover no one will know I don't have vernier pulleys will they? That will save me considerable embarassment. Killed two birds with one stone. AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger King Posted November 12, 2001 Share Posted November 12, 2001 We've seen BDRs with jumped belts thanks to stones. But we ran the works Escorts and HS Chevettes without covers. Usually this didn't cause a problem, but the cars had sump guards and were very different to a 7. I think your friend is right, either a full cover or non at all, but the full option is best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simos Posted November 12, 2001 Share Posted November 12, 2001 Twice ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted November 12, 2001 Author Share Posted November 12, 2001 Thanks Roger. Tried to blag a cover from two different Formula Ford engine builder friends today. Was told by both of them that they run the covers. One also said that after one season of racing they replace them with new ones beacuse they look so beaten up. Obviously engine location is different and frequent visits to the gravel trap are the norm. I think the decision to fit the cover is the right one especially as the roads around my way are pretty 'orrible in places. Regarding the alternator, no one I can find makes a bracket that works with the cover in place (Unless someone knows different). Have ordered engine mountings today from Raceline so at least I can see where the hell I can fit the damn thing without interfering with the mountings. Tried picking up the engine still attached to the engine stand and it doesn't feel too bad. Will weight the Zetec and the Crossflow to find out what the difference is. Tax runs out at end of month. Work starts on the engine swap on Saturday 1st of December. Yippee. AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julians Posted November 12, 2001 Share Posted November 12, 2001 Ammo, If you find one that will fit a raceline alternator setup let me know, better safe than sorry. Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allen Posted November 13, 2001 Share Posted November 13, 2001 Hi Ammo, My home grown conversion uses the original ford cam belt cover, water pump pully and crank drive pulley protrude through. My alternator (smallish original from xflow) is mounted on the exhaust side of the engine, low down, with a mounting welded to the sump. Adjustment strap was a fiddle and very close to the drive belt but has worked OK. Drive belt is a volvo aircon fitment. Pic and further details if required. allen Bye the way, flywheel not yet fited Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted November 14, 2001 Author Share Posted November 14, 2001 Allen I would be very interested in seeing some pics. Could you please email them to me. Thanks AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zetec Rich Posted November 14, 2001 Share Posted November 14, 2001 I have run my Zetec for four years now without a cover over the cam belt with no trouble at all But i havn't parked it in a gravel trap. I think i still have the origional cover in the garage somwhwere if your interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.R. Posted November 15, 2001 Share Posted November 15, 2001 The James Whiting alternator st up is fitted under the carbs and does not interfere with the cam belt covers. VERNIER PULLEYS I can remember when they were just that - ie 13 holes in pulley 12 in boss with dowel location allowing VERNIER ADJUSTMENT. Most that I have seen these days have slotted holes with clamping bolts, they may have cap screws and look sexy with the anodising but VERNIER pulleys they aint! How many people I wonder have spent vast amounts of money on "vernier" pulleys for the Zetec without realising that the standard pulleys are adjustable??!! Perhaps the ASA are not concerned with people who want to throw away their money for no benefit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oilyhands Posted November 15, 2001 Share Posted November 15, 2001 A vernier is defined as a small movable graduated scale for obtaining fractional parts of subdivisions on a fixed scale, so in the true sense the slotted holes / clamping bolt / sliding adjustment with a pointer against a scale is closer to the definition of a vernier than the multi-hole / dowel version which has no measured / graduated radial scale as a reference. The point about using a vernier pulley on a Zetec is that given a particular initial datum point the cam timing can be varied by a known number of degrees without having to undo the clamp bolt and then possibly completely lose the initial setting. If you are not extremely careful with holding the cam completely still, the cam can turn quite a lot the moment the clamping force against the sprocket is lost.. That said I havent used them on any Zetecs and I normally set cam timing by measuring/setting lift at TDC. Oily Edited by - oilyhands on 15 Nov 2001 11:52:34 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted November 15, 2001 Author Share Posted November 15, 2001 Zetec Rich Thanks for your offer, unfortunately I ordered a new one before reading your message. I did the cam timing on my Zetec yesterday and had no problem setting it exactly as I wanted with the standard pulleys. The ali ones would be nice just for the weight saving and if you wanted to change the cam timing on the dyno. AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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