AMMO Posted June 18, 2005 Share Posted June 18, 2005 There has been some talk of the Duratecs running very cool and that big rads were not neccessary. Having seen my old Zetec reach vey high coolant temperatures on a hot day stuck in traffic I decided to go for a Pace 4 core rad against popular opinion. Very nicely made bit of kit. The general consensus and views from people whose opinions I respect was that the engine would take a long time to come up to temperature or run extremely cool. After having put a few miles on the Duratec I have not seen any of the over-cooling issues. The thermostat is the electrically operated one controlled by the Emerald ECU (the conventional Mazda 82 degree stat would have worked equally as well I am sure. Due to odd chassis installation problems the electric one fitted better). The temperature rises quickly enough to 80 degrees C and settles there. With more enthusiastic use the temperature goes to around 90 and has not exceeded this figure so far. So what is different? I have tapped a hole in the back of the head where there is a coolant exit where the EGR valve would normally sit to place the temperature sender in the head. A sender located elsewhere may give odd readings. This hole needed blocking off anyway so why not kill two birds with one stone? I am running the stock 2 litre coolant exit block / coil support raher than an aftermarket water rail. I have also put a restrictor on the exit pipe from the coolant block to the header tank. Engines not fitted with a restrictor here may take time to come up to temperature as the coolant leaves the head with considerable pressure. Not exactly sure how the coolant leaving the head would be replenished as the thermostat would be shut. But there is flow there that needs to be restricted. It works for me. I am happy to pay the weight penalty of a larger rad knowing that I am not going to cook my engine on a hot day. Also leaves me with a bit extra capacity should i wish to upgrade to a more powerful engine package. Not that I have any intention of doing that just quite yet, am I Alex? 😬 I have a fan over-ride switch on the dash but the VW fan swith in the rad seems to be doing an excellent job. Cuts in at less than 90 C. The fan could also be controlled by te ECU but I had a hole to fill in the rad so went for the switch. On the whole very happy with my setup as I have coolant capacity in reserve. AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Walker Posted June 18, 2005 Share Posted June 18, 2005 Ammo, I cannot see why fitting a high capacity rad should make the car run too cool if the thermostat is doing its job properly. I had a report back from Tom Hood last night, he spent the day at Silverstone GP circuit yesterday with his 280 bhp Duratec doing lap after lap as there were only 25 people on the BRDC track day and it was an open pit lane , he reported that temps stayed in the 80`s and he runs the standard CC ali rad and Mazda thermostat. He also reported that he was able to blow away every other car on the circuit inc Porkers GT2 & GT3`s , the car generated a lot of interest due to its pace. A happy bunny I think I am still patiently waiting for a drive in this car. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted June 18, 2005 Author Share Posted June 18, 2005 Rob I am not worried about the ability of the small rad doing its job on track whilst the car is moving. It is whilst at a standstill in traffic that worries me. I used to see 110 degrees C with my Zetec with the big steel rad on a hot day on the A14. Stuck in a jam for about an hour stop starting. Not nice. Anybody with a Duratec got stuck in traffic on a hot day yet? AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgrigsby Posted June 18, 2005 Share Posted June 18, 2005 Yup me, I've got a Radtec raid in traffic on a hot day I've seen 100ish but it drops very quickly as soon as the fan kicks in. Plus based on the temps I saw at Emerald I think my water temperature guage over reads by about 5 degrees or so. So in reality it wasn't that hot. I'm having other heat problems though! in particularly the transmission tunnel and footwell are getting so hot that you can singe your leg on the transmission tunnel, time for a new post I think! Rob G www.SpeedySeven.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted June 18, 2005 Author Share Posted June 18, 2005 Rob I have some heat resitant cloth / foil stuff that I intend to put on the engine bay side of the footwells at some stage. Hoping this might keep the heat from the exhaust down a bit. I have carpet on my transmission tunnel so not a problem with getting burnt. AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgrigsby Posted June 18, 2005 Share Posted June 18, 2005 Yup that's the stuff I've got, I've put it on the end of the drivers footwell so far but I think I'm going to need to cover the whole footwell and inside of the transmission tunnel in it. Rob G www.SpeedySeven.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dobuy Posted June 18, 2005 Share Posted June 18, 2005 pah you have no idea wha hot is Duratec SV, built in Dubai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Mupferit Posted June 19, 2005 Share Posted June 19, 2005 I put the heat resisting/reflecting material all over the footwell on mine before installing the engine in anticipaion of heat soak from the primaries which was horrendous on my old car. Not had a chance to try it yet in extreme heat but hopeful it will be useful. Mine still seems to run very cool as well and the radiator is still partially blanked even though the ambient temperatures are increasing. Brent 2.3 DURATEC SV R 417.39 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Brolund Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 Is it possible to replace the 82 degree Mazda thermostat with a 70 degree ? JB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted August 26, 2005 Author Share Posted August 26, 2005 Jan I've not seen a 70 degree thermostat for a Duratec. AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Mupferit Posted August 26, 2005 Share Posted August 26, 2005 Since AMMO has brought this back to the top, I thought I would give a quick update on my further experiences with cooling on my 2.3 during high ambient temperatures. I have now completed nearly 3000 miles, 2/3rds of which has been with my cockpit operated radiator blind. I have the Raceline triple pass aluminium rad (CC rad with the connections fitted on opposite sides), Raceline water rail and an 82 deg wax type thermostat. Because the 'stat is remote from the head outlet, the stat has a 2.5mm hole drilled in the base to allow some water to pass over the bulb so that it has a chance of sampling the actual temperature exiting the head. Without this hole there is, effectively, a stagnant slug of water in the rail and you are reliant upon convection alone to pass the message to the stat that the water in the head is actually getting quite hot ❗ Initially, the engine just wouldn't get up to temperature and I was never seeing more that about 60 deg even after a longish run on a warm day so I made up a set of adjustable aluminium louvres to fit in front of the rad and cover the bottom 2/3rds. This is extremely effective and can be operated from inside the car by using a push/pull device similar to the heater valve control. I now find that at present in the UK, the louvres are closed all the time and the temperature quickly gets up to an indicated 80 deg + at which point the stat opens and it just sits at that level either at speed or sat in traffic. The fan cycles on and off in traffic and the gauge needle moves up or down by no more than 5 deg or so. In France at the beginning of July, we experienced ambient temperatures of up to the mid 30's and at these levels, I only had to crack the louvres open by 30-40% to maintain temperatures of 80 + on the gauge. I only ever fully opened the louvres if we were stuck in traffic for longish periods although that was really only to prevent the fan from running any longer than necessary. Still the engine stayed cool and inside the car, not once did we ever feel it was getting unbearably hot as it used to in my old Zetec car. I actually quite like the idea of my adjustable louvres as it gives me something else to play with whilst driving 😬 and keeps me totally involved with the car. So I would say that it is definitely over-cooled with the present rad but it does give me something in hand should I use the car on track on a very hot day. I didn't fit a heater in this car following my experience with the old one but I'm beginning to wonder if I might succumb to it if I continue to use the car now the evenings are getting a tad chilly. 😳 We will see. I do love this engine *cool* Brent 2.3 DURATEC SV Reassuringly Expensive R 417.39 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeE Posted August 26, 2005 Share Posted August 26, 2005 That's strange as I have the full Raceline set up and found my water temperature reached 103-104. whilst stuck in a traffic jam on the M25 in May so you definitely can get a Duratec uncomfortably hot. Having said that, on track the temp never gets higher than 95. according to the stack R400 Duratec Build and Modification Pictures here Edited by - MikeE on 26 Aug 2005 09:38:37 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Mupferit Posted August 26, 2005 Share Posted August 26, 2005 Mike, I'm not sure you have the same rad as I do though. Pete McEwen told me they started doing these for the 2.3 and since mine was only the 2nd one he had built they didn't really have too much operating experience with them at that time. I guess he felt that with a bigger engine, it would be wise to incorporate a bit more cooling capacity. Also I did fit a big 12" Pacet fan to mine during the build which, in hindsight, is a bit OTT although it is very efficient at bringing the temperature back down when it cuts in. You can actually see the needle start to move quite quickly within seconds of the fan cutting in. I think it is also a fact that with far more air space around the engine in the SV, it helps enormously with keeping temperatures inside the car to a more comfortable level. Brent 2.3 DURATEC SV Reassuringly Expensive R 417.39 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mic Posted August 26, 2005 Share Posted August 26, 2005 Jan is using one of my water rails which runs under the throttle bodies, or carbs in his case. I don't think temperature in traffic will worry him so much, as there is no heat soak from the exhaust . The 82 degree stat should be fine. Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannylt Posted August 26, 2005 Share Posted August 26, 2005 My car (built by mic) certainly gets to a nice 80 plenty quick, and doesn't really budge above that, maybe touching 90 on track. The highest I have seen the oil is about 110 on a very hot day and 30 minutes on track, otherwise more like 90. No problems in traffic jams (apart from burnt leg if you wear shorts!), and the fan gets the temp straight back down when it cuts in. I assumed it was the standard triple pass radiator. I can't see why a slightly bigger engine would require more cooling to merely idle - the power output is surely very similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeE Posted August 26, 2005 Share Posted August 26, 2005 Danny, I think you have the R500 radiator? R400 Duratec Build and Modification Pictures here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dobuy Posted August 28, 2005 Share Posted August 28, 2005 I have a similar set-up to you Brent, however, my radiator may be the older 2.0 Raceline supplied one, as I was unaware that there was a bigger 2.3 one available from Raceline. Certainly Pete did not tell me about it when I was discussing my cooling issues, last week. On the track in temps above 40' I can get my 226bhp 2.0 pretty hot, around 104' or so at its hottest. With the old CC fan it overheated pretty quickly in the pit lane as well. I have got a new Pace 11' fan that is going in along with my new 2.3 engine (if I get the dry sump in time). It will be interesting to see what the extra bhp does to the cooling levels. Duratec SV, built in Dubai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgrigsby Posted August 28, 2005 Share Posted August 28, 2005 I'm running a Radtec ali rad on my 2.3 duratec, it gets up to 70/80 very quickly but then won't really budge much above that unless you really drive it hard. Even then as soon as the fan kicks in it cools down straight away. Rob G www.SpeedySeven.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 So that will be most of the time then Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgrigsby Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 Don't know what you mean 😬 The USA tour should be an interesting test, I don't think the ambient temp will ever drop much below 25 and it'll probably be a lot more in places. Rob G www.SpeedySeven.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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