AMMO Posted May 31, 2005 Share Posted May 31, 2005 Looks like I have two Sevens now. The civilised, quiet and docile car and the mental “you shouldn’t be doing that on the public highway” animal. Let me explain. The Duratec I have fitted makes 105 bhp at 4000 rpm. If you short shift at 4K it is bloody quick for the road and will take you to 10 mph over the national limit faster than most cars. Reminds me of a friend’s TVR Griffith 500. You could go illegal in 3rd by short shifting in a matter of seconds. Effortless. I have one of those AP22 things to try out at some point. Be interesting to see what the 0-60 times are using just 4000 rpm. So we have 105 bhp at 4000. The engine then proceeds to produce 140 bhp at 4,500 rpm. Power continues to rise to 226 bhp at 6500 rpm. Go beyond 4,500 rpm and things start to get interesting. I am treating the car with a lot of respect and am learning how to drive all over again. REV 7K has been off the road for 18 months and I am a bit rusty. The interesting thing is that max torque and max power occur at around 6500 rpm. This is good for me as I tended to only rev the Zetec to 6,500 although it would go to 7,500. 6500 rpm is low for max power and is probably due to my experimental exhaust collector which looks like a 4 into1 but is actually a 4-2-1 internally. Other 2 litre Duratecs make max power higher up. Some more work is needed on the dyno to find out more. Gearing with the 3.92 diff, BGH gearbox and 205 / 13” AO48 Yokohamas seems to be about right. When I am convinced of this I will fit the ZF LSD. The car is much quieter than when it had the Zetec fitted. Starts first time and ticks over without touching anything. Thanks to Dave Walker for some excellent mapping. The oil pressure goes to almost 5 bar cold. I wait til the pressure comes down to 4 bar and the coolant temperature goes up to 80 C. before giving it any revs. Coolant temperature is stable with the electrically heated thermostat controlled by the ECU. I have the Pace big rad and there seems to be no issues of over-cooling that some people have mentioned. In my early chassis there was no room to fit the conventional type stat as the angle and length of the spout is different. I could have modified it but I want an off the shelf solution if it goes wrong. Nitron shocks are a big improvement over the ageing Spax (thanks to Guy Evans). The car actually dives at the front under braking which I like as I can feel what is happening. Before it stayed fairly flat. The ride heights were all over the place but thanks to Matt Blackbirdman’s 8 scales from Argos flat flooring facility it feels quite good. Car weighs approx 550 / 560 kilos with weather gear, ¾ tank of gas, spare wheel and tools. Just over 400 bhp / ton. Ultralite four pots at the front feel good but are still bedding in. I changed the leverage ratio at the pedal but now it feels a bit too long so I will probably revert to the original setting and see what happens. No locking of rears under heavy braking. Did lock up the front left on an uneven road. Needs more work to get it 100% right. Hydraulic clutch feels good. I used a smaller master cylinder and again changed the leverage ratio at the lever. Nice and light with the biting point in the right place for me. Other Duratec clutches felt heavy. Throttle linkage is home brewed and not quite right yet. Need to be re-made as I am not happy with the angle of dangle of the cable. Feels OK but you have to be careful at small openings as it can be a little bit jerky. Especially if you are going over a bumpy road. I am amazed at how little gas the engine needs to go quite quick. You can be making good progress at road speeds with little throttle openings. Haven’t got any fuel consumption figures yet. May have a fuel surge problem that might need sorting out. This may only be a problem when the tank is almost out of fuel. Will keep a close eye on it. May have to go back to using a swirl pot. The hydraulic brake switch failed after the MOT so I fitted a mechanical one from a Peugeot. The brake lights now come on just as you touch the brakes and the switch is adjustable. Am I pleased? You bet! With a little more work REV 7K will be exactly what I wanted. A car I can take on holidays and a track car for some serious fun. Lets hope the weather satys nice. 😬 😬 😬 AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david nelson Posted May 31, 2005 Share Posted May 31, 2005 Ammo sounds great, must be good to have her back on the road.Hope the weather hold for all of us. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Mupferit Posted May 31, 2005 Share Posted May 31, 2005 Great isn't it 🤔 😬 😬 My first impressions were exactly the same as yours ie very docile and mild mannered if you are just trickling around town but OMIGOD ferocious when you want it to be. My wifes first impression was........"isn't it quiet and civilised". She hasn't yet experienced the OMIGOD bit 😬 Brent 2.3 DURATEC SV R 417.39 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgrigsby Posted May 31, 2005 Share Posted May 31, 2005 Sounds great Ammo, my car is the same except I would be shorting at less then 3k!! I hope I can make this weekend as I think you will enjoy a quick run in the car. Rob G www.SpeedySeven.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dobuy Posted May 31, 2005 Share Posted May 31, 2005 Shock news Leading Duratec tuner drives his Duratec 'bout bloody time too AMMO *thumbup* Duratec SV, built in Dubai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinWoodham Posted May 31, 2005 Share Posted May 31, 2005 good to hear the car's on the road - will you be at the Carrotland meet next week? Martin Roadsports B If everything's under control you're going too slow (Emmerson Fittipaldi) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted May 31, 2005 Share Posted May 31, 2005 Ammo - are you using the Ultralite 4's? With a standard MC? Mintex 1144s? Mine aren't particularly good yet - and my rears *do* work too hard... ☹️ Project Scope-Creep is live... Alcester Racing 7's Equipe - 🙆🏻™ Alcester-Racing-Sevens.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted May 31, 2005 Author Share Posted May 31, 2005 Thnks guys I will be at the Cornwallis next week. Started using a bit more revs and this little red light keeps coming on. I think it is to let you know you are in the red "economy" zone. Can't seem to drive so that it is on all the time though. Myles I am using Ultralite 4s, standard M/Cyl. and Green Stuff at the front but am not impressed by initial bite. The car had been lying around unused for so long that the discs had gone really rusty. Tomorrow I will clean the discs and pads to get rid of any rust and try again. The car stops and you can lock up the front wheels but it does not have the feel that I would like. I have changed the pedal ratio back to original and it is better. I had Mintex 1144 in the front 4 pots on my Mini. Useless cold. I stuck road pads in that were good cold but useless hot. Sold the car before I got it sorted. I'll let you know if I come up with any amazing revelations. When we were racing bikes we were sponsored by Performance Friction. These pads lasted a long time and worked both hot and cold. Be interesting to see if they are available for the Ultralites. I think the pad is the same as an Elise. Otherwise Pagid must be worth a try. AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiF Posted May 31, 2005 Share Posted May 31, 2005 Great, just what I thought. They are great arn't they 😬 Need someone (you ) to develop a graduated accelerator mechanism. Very hard going through a quiet village when you hit a bump.....kangarooing is 😳 Richard in France Flying fast in my very bright yellow 226bhp Duratec 7, with internal kevlar/carbon panels and pushrod suspension 😬 😬 😬.for pictures of 7 and carbon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted May 31, 2005 Share Posted May 31, 2005 Mmm - my rears might have been boosted by swapping the hardlines for flexis - the calipers certainly move a lot more easily... ...It's a bit squirrely at the rear under heavy braking - and I'm not sure I've got the fronts to lock up before the rears at all. The pads are Elise-jobs - I might try pagids if they don't get better fairly quickly - trouble is John Frith warned that 1144s have a tendency to deposit friction material into the disc in a way that means a going over with emery-cloth doesn't clear. Hopefully, having fitted new discs, this won't be too much of a problem. Project Scope-Creep is live... Alcester Racing 7's Equipe - 🙆🏻™ Alcester-Racing-Sevens.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted May 31, 2005 Author Share Posted May 31, 2005 Myles Hmmmm. Just remembered, we were sponsored by several brake oad manufacturers and spent a lot of time rubbing deposits off discs. The only pads that really worked were Performance Friction. PF failed to deliver on time for a race at Assen so we stuck another brand in. My rider almost went straight on at the end of the straight and demanded we put the worn out PF pads in (they had already done five races). Perfect. No problems. Won the race as well. We had no end of brake problems, soft levers (that went hard again once everything had cooled down), fading etc. that just disappeared once we fitted PF. Would like to get hold of some for the Seven. My understanding is that brake pads are just dust and glue. Sometimes the glue deposits itself on the disc and they don't work as well as they should. Hence all the rubbing down. Works for a while then happens all over again. Brakes are funny things. They take a lot of fine tuning to get right. My race bike had a Brembo master cylinder with Goodridge lines, AP 6 pot clipers with PF pads on PFM discs with Castrol SRF brake fluid. Were descibed by bike journo Alan Cathcart as some of the best brakes he had ever tried. Keep trying. AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Willis Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 Ammo, Glad you're finally mobile - worth waiting for I'm sure. Did you get a solid layshaft in the end? If not, it will be interesting to see how you get on. I am sure my syncros are going already after 2500 miles. I do wonder how these mad 2.3s will get on with BGH boxes. How different in spec is your engine to mine? Surprising they make peak power at such different places given I guess they are reasonably similar apart from the exhaust. Have you overlaid the power curves? The sump on mine has been fine since it was refitted, but there is a slight weep, I think from around the front engine cover. Looks like it would be quite a lot of hassle getting to it in the car though? Enjoy the driving, Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted June 1, 2005 Author Share Posted June 1, 2005 Ben No solid layshaft. Maybe next winter if it holds out until then. Mine too has a slight weep at the sump but I think it is porosity of the casting. The difference in spec is cams, piston cutouts and porting. Yours is the 210 spec and mine the 220 spec. The collector is a lot different and I suspect the headers are a bit on the long side. They have been left long deliberately and have a 5" straight section which can be shortened and experimented with on the dyno. Probably next winter too. This should bring the power further up the rev range. Very tempted to go to steel rods, forged pistons and more camshaft. I have a bet going with Alex Wong that the first one to do an engine upfgrade pays £20.00 to NTL 😬 Coming to the Cornwallis next week? Curious to see how you have resolved certain things on your car. Hope you can make it. AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgrigsby Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 It's going to depend on the type of driving I do but one advantage of the "madder spec" 2.3 is you can just stick it in 5th at 30mph and still out accelerate most things. With that approach the gearbox should last for ages!!! 😬 Rob G www.SpeedySeven.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Willis Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 Ammo, I'm unlikely to make the Cornwallis - usually (always) back from work too late these days. However, I'd be keen to come along to Emerald at the weekend if you still have space? Rob, My humble 2.0 managed to break its first BGH box in about 600 miles. In fact it actually went with Ammo in the car I think - certainly it was on the way home I first noticed the resulting nasty noise. It managed to slide first gear (I think) along the layshaft a bit so it started rattling against reverse. Apparently a very rare problem, last seen in a turbo car towing a caravan! All fixed with BGHs usual excellent service. Presumably all the 2.3 cars have the later solid shaft so this won't be a problem. However, you do have lots of grunt going through what isn't the world's strongest gearbox. I believe revs kill them most often though, so hopefully they will last. Does anybody else get through syncros in a few thousand miles, or is it just my driving? Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgrigsby Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 Ben when I had a standard type 9 5 speed with my 8500 Steel Xflow with a paddle clutch I used to break syncros almost every other race, I did this 3 times and gave up and switched to a Caterahm 6 speed box. I've covered around 2000miles (including 1 track day and a sprint) with my 2.3 Duratec now with the BGH uprated 280bhp box and it's fine at the moment. Which gearbox oil are you using? Cheers Rob G www.SpeedySeven.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petrolhead Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 Sounds just like my R5 😬 NE7Club Web Site R5 no 65 😬 I am after low level tyre rack and jerry can box for Mino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Willis Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 Rob, I had bought Redline MTL, but BGH told me it was the devil's work and would kill the box in no time - seems the opposite of EVERYTHING else I read, but it seemed sensible to go with their (rather strong) recommendation. This is some strange grade of Comma which turned out to a pain in the neck to find. It seems fine, but I can't say I've noticed any real imrpovement in shift quality over a standard Type 9. I seem to remember a few other heretics suggesting this in the past too. Ratios certainly better though. Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dobuy Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 Any idea what it would cost to upgrade a "standard" BGH to the solid layshaft. Guess I would need new syncro's after 2000 miles of mostly track work (using Redline MTL). Duratec SV, built in Dubai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Willis Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 Don't know - they did mine foc 'cause the old one ate itself. I think shortly after they built mine the first time round they started fitting solid shafts as standard. Must have been just over a year ago? Nifty will know, he collected it for me Not sure why they don't rate MTL when everyone else does. People say it does wonders for the shift quality, but Brian says they tell a box that has been running on MTL when they strip it down and they fair much worse. Anybody got any first hand experience? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Mupferit Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 Eeeeeeeekkkkkkk *eek* I've been using Redline MTL in both my BGH gearboxes and I have to say the shift quality is really excellent but what else it might be doing to the gearbox, who knows? What oil does Brian recommend then? Brent 2.3 DURATEC SV R 417.39 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgrigsby Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 Ben/Brent sounds like we've all done the same thing, I've always used Redline MTL in my gearboxes so I put this in the BGH box when I got it. After a few hundred miles I was talking to BGH and mentioned it and they said DON'T USE REDLINE MTL! same reason as you have mentioned, boxes run on MTL are generally in much worse condition when opened up and they've had quite a few failures with people running MTL. I dropped the oil out of mine and went for their recommend Comma oil, Chris at the 7's Workshop has it in stock so it was quite easy for me. As a first hand user Redline MTL and Comma user I would say that the Comma oil has made the change a bit stiffer and possibly the box a bit noiser but I could be imagining it. When the box is cold the change is REALLY stiff but once warm it's fine. I only did a few 100 miles with Redline MTL in my BGH box but it definetly did seem to have a smoother easier change. It's just a question of what other damage it was doing. As an aside does anyone else with a BGH box find the transmission tunnel gets quite hot? I think this is new to me as the box is now 2inches further back than with the Xflow so the affect probably wasn't as noticeable before. Cheers Rob G www.SpeedySeven.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Willis Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 Brent, Slightly out of breath having run down the garage to get the bottle, I can report that BGH recommend Comma SX75W-90 GL4. They specifically said not to use a GL5 oil, which is what most people tried to sell me as they had it in stock. The GL4 is semi-synth, I think GL5 might be fully synth? I had to look all over for it. In the end BGH got some in stock themselves. Plenty of people told me there was no such oil (including Comma at one point) but that clearly isn't true as I have some here. Funnily enough a week later I walked past a random motorfactors in Harrogate and they had a shelf full. I am not sure how different this is to the Caterham branded Comma box oil? I am sure though that Brian really doesn't like MTL and says his boxes will not last with it in - probably worth giving him a ring to get it straight from the horse's mouth. Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom7 Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 The additives in GL5 oils do not work well with gearboxes of the type 9 vintage. Essentially they are *too* slippery ❗ - Hence the 'improvement' in shift quality. The stuff recommended by BGH is slightly thicker and will look after the synchros better... At least this is what I was told when trying to find the recommended stuff. I ended up buying oil from Caterham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Walker Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 Tom7 your getting things the wrong way round the gL5 is indeed slippier than GL4 but this gives a worse gear selection as the syncro`s cannot grip the cones. As for MTL this is GL4 grade and I have done over 20K miles using this stuff in my own 6 speeder and looked after cars with the type 9 never had any problems whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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