Julian Thompson Posted October 31, 2001 Share Posted October 31, 2001 In the USA, Caterham use the Zetec. This seems cheaper to tune than the K series. Is it heavier than the K? Why don't they use it in the UK? Has anyone been able to buy a new superlite with no engine from Caterham? Does the 1.6 K motor rev better than the 1.8 because of its shorter stroke? Is the 1.6 still a serious tuning proposition or should I go for a 1.8 anyway? John Barker from EVO mag reckons the 1.6Superlight is the best ever Caterham - comments anyone? Is the wind deflector feasible for use on the road with only sunglasses on? Thanks a lot! 8JU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swiss_Tony Posted October 31, 2001 Share Posted October 31, 2001 The new zetec looks interesting but the exhaust is on the "wrong" side. The old zetec uses a cast block but the new one is ali so should be quite light. Just for the record the best ever Caterham is mine! The trusty old vx engine - you cant beat it! James wink.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Thompson Posted October 31, 2001 Author Share Posted October 31, 2001 Aha! I see, with the exhaust on the "wrong" side it suits the USA! Is the "new" Zetec on anyone's shopping list then? 8JU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bricol Posted November 1, 2001 Share Posted November 1, 2001 I would suppose the only reason the Zetec is used in the US is the fact that it is also produced for cars in the Us and subsequently meets (in the US version) the far stricter emissions and gas mileage requirements of the US DOT. If a "unique or homebuilt" vehile is fitted with a US emisisons compliant drive train, it can be registered - I'm fairly certain the "K" is not US compliant. Of course, you can also fit a pre-69 (I think) drive line and that is also okay 'cos it is exempt from testing. Bri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmar Posted November 1, 2001 Share Posted November 1, 2001 Hi Julian - glad you found the site - if you look int he archives theres is a lot on the topic of aeroscreens as for just sunglassess and the aeroscreen, I have done this with a set of oakleysand it was OK, a lot of people are fine with this setup. Personally I felt very exposed so 99 times out of 100 I put the helmet one. rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Riches Posted November 1, 2001 Share Posted November 1, 2001 Rob, are we all talking the same piece of equipment here? Julian is talking of wind deflectors, I think he means as fitted to the windscreen supports, as against what the Brits call Aeroscreens, little semi-circular windscreens fitted atop the scuttle. I have also driven with Aeroscreens, and found less buffeting, than using the wind deflector fitted to the windscreen supports. But be sure in both cases to wear some safety type glasses to protect your eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Mupferit Posted November 1, 2001 Share Posted November 1, 2001 The 'New Zetec' is actually called a Duratec, somewhat confusingly, as Ford also apply the same name to their 2.5L V6 engine. The new 2L is an altogether different proposition to the old Zetec, being all aluminium, chain driven cams and, on the face of it, eminently more tuneable than any other production engine currently on offer. I believe the 'K' is, indeed, non US compliant and has never been officially sold over there whereas the Zetec is fitted to very many Ford cars and, therefore, widely available. As far as buying a car from Caterham without the engine is concerned, my understanding is that you can still do this, in fact I believe you can still buy as much or as little as required of the necessary parts. That was certainly true when I bought mine 4 years ago, but maybe SVA, or something, has changed all that. A quick phone call to Caterham would clarify. Brent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Corb Posted November 1, 2001 Share Posted November 1, 2001 It is still possible to buy the car in its component parts. It just costs about £1000 more, although if you find a cheaper engine from elsewhere then you can save money overall. The new 2.0l 4 pot is called Duratec HE. It gets more confusing when you look at the new Focus ST engine, which although its a Zetec the've called it Duratec ST!! The new Duratec HE engine is being fettled by Raceline to fit into a Caterham as we speak. The power outputs will range from 170BHP to 260BHP at first, rising to 300+BHP over time (did you hear that Arnie??) as people get more experience with the internals. Piper are starting to develop cams for it now which should be available in a couple of months. Raceline have their own inlet manifold, sump (wet or dry) and bell housing. If I were considering buying a Caterham now (to build myself) I'd consider waiting a few months for the new engine to become available. I'm sure this engine will be THE engine to have. BC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARK WARREN Posted November 1, 2001 Share Posted November 1, 2001 I am sure you can by a starter kit , live or de-dion, it SHOULD be possible to arrange for the exhaust 'hole' to be as per the USA , Arch Motors would need a request from Caterham at time of speccing up the car. I was able in 1998 to spec my live axle car to take a Ford axle. Cheers, Mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmar Posted November 1, 2001 Share Posted November 1, 2001 Nigel - I think I meant wind deflector, I have not been in a car with the little semi circular pieces of glass. I think they do look good. Any one know if they can come with the a 'bvlack pack' finish rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Mupferit Posted November 1, 2001 Share Posted November 1, 2001 Bob, I agree that the new Duratec will, I am sure, be THE engine to have and since seeing it down at Raceline a couple of weeks ago and talking to Peter, I just might go that route in the future. As you do, I immediately came home and sat down to spec. a brand new 7, giving about a year for the Duratec to be ready. So I reckoned to sell my car next summer and place the new order for delivery, minus engine, ready for a winter build in 2002-2003. The thought of a reliable 260 bhp in a roadgoing 7 fills me with a lot of pleasure, and still room for engine upgrades!!!! smile.gif The real BC Edited by - BRENT CHISWICK on 1 Nov 2001 13:27:05 Edited by - BRENT CHISWICK on 1 Nov 2001 13:27:41 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted November 1, 2001 Share Posted November 1, 2001 Bob, A few years ago Pete McEwen was also optimistic as to the attainable power outputs of the Zetec. To date I don't think anyone has one at much over 225bhp..... A VX engine is easily tunable to well over 300bhp - Touring car engines will deliver 330bhp if the 8500 limit is not imposed. Trouble is, they become cammy at the limit - not desirable in a road/track car. This is why I have not modded my car any further in terms of cams. Fat Arn The NOW PROVEN R500 Eaterid=red> See the Lotus Seven Club 4 Counties Area Website hereid=green> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul McKenzie Posted November 1, 2001 Share Posted November 1, 2001 Bob, I agree with Arnie on this. You just can't expect to get reliable power outputs of the order of even 130bhp per litre with a new road engine design ..... unless perhaps it's a bike engine designed for high specific outputs with extreme tolerances. It's going to take time for the Duratec to become easily available at the right price and then for all the tuners to have a good look at it, and to develop the necessary tuning parts. With the established tuning potential of the VX, plus it's inherent reliability, all it really needs is for someone to get the alloy block to perform reliably (does anyone have any experience of these?) and you would have an ultimate combination of power and lightness...now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Mupferit Posted November 1, 2001 Share Posted November 1, 2001 Arnie, But doesn't the WRC Focus use a cast iron block Zetec at 300bhp plus? Are you still intending to meet at 9 o/c for the run to Pease Pottage on Sunday. Brent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanB Posted November 1, 2001 Share Posted November 1, 2001 Yes, but it's turbocharged and that's cheating. Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Mupferit Posted November 1, 2001 Share Posted November 1, 2001 Was only pointing out that someone has got a lot more than 225. It's just the engineer in me that likes accuracy. smile.gif BC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted November 1, 2001 Share Posted November 1, 2001 Arnie - I thought you were running a 2.2 or 2.3 crank , so 300 bhp sould'nt be impossible ?? Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdg Posted November 1, 2001 Share Posted November 1, 2001 The 2litre Zetec in my friends Chevron was built by Solus (professional race engine builders) and makes 230bhp on the Dyno at only 7200rpm, and they reckon there's a lot more to come with further up-grades. It has been totally reliable all season, having done about ten 20-odd minute races and several test days. It also makes more mid-range torque than the Hart 420R in it's sister car, as tested on the same dyno.(And it's physically much smaller). I would imagine it to be a superb unit to fit in a Caterham. Chris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Thompson Posted November 1, 2001 Author Share Posted November 1, 2001 Any ideas about whether Caterham will adopt the new Duratec then as a mainstream alternative to the K series? 8JU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Corb Posted November 1, 2001 Share Posted November 1, 2001 I didn't say we were going to get monster outputs out of the DHE engine immediately, this will take time as none of the small tuning outfits have the financial clout to really get stuck into the engine, but in time... The restrictions of the Zetec are well known and unavoidable. The DHE engine has a much higher tuning potential than the Zetec which I don't want to get into here but having seen one laid out on a bench in bits it looks promising. The new engine is easily available now, simply go to www.fordpowerproducts.de and click on DHE420 for details. I'm sure Ford are going to push sales of this engine hard given that they are ideally placed to supply this engine for worldwide use and after the Zetec didn't take off that quickly. The technology in the block isn't cutting edge, it does have steel liners cast in. Its not got parent material bores like Audi's and BMW's. Cheers "The other BC" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Corb Posted November 2, 2001 Share Posted November 2, 2001 Oops, re-reading Paul Mac's note I now realise what he meant by ally block (QED one yes?). Getting aluminium blocks (with bare parent material bores) to work reliably is a nightmare. BMW use this technology on their 6 cylinder engines up to the 3.0L model (77BHP/L), but they can't get it to work on the M3 (106BHP/L) and stick to a iron block. Audi have used it on the 4.2L V8 succesfully which is presently up to 360BHP (85BHP/L)and their new 3.0 V6. If QED ally blocks dont work now it will be almost impossible to get them reliable. If the likes of Audi and BMW can't do it, what chance do we stand especially with a specific output of 150BHP/L!! Sorry Arnie, I'm not having a poke at the VX really (anyway its not a VX its a Cosworth KB motor, and I am biased, I'm a development engineer for Cosworth). The KB is a great design, good breathing, high burn rate and the race results speak for themselves. I just look forward to the days when we can get a donor engine which has first class performance, lightweight (well lighter than Zetec/VX), reliable and is easily available. The K (which I use) is just too fragile and crude in many respects. Cheers "The other" BC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elie boone Posted November 2, 2001 Share Posted November 2, 2001 Bob, If you work for Cosworth why don't you drive a BD engine ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Corb Posted November 3, 2001 Share Posted November 3, 2001 I only joined 3 years ago and all the BD parts have long since disapeared. We hardly have any YB (Sierra) parts left either, not that I'd want a turbo lump. We only have one KB (astra 16v) engine left on a stand, I couldn't get one of those either. My favourite Cosworth engine would be the KC/KD series (Opel DTM Calibra motor). How does 450BHP from a 2.5 V6 sound? Revs to 14000rpm with air valve springs. Short stroke, very compact, one exhaust down each side of the car? Unfortunately Opel took all the engines away, so we only have drawings left. Okay its a bit extreme but it good be de-tuned ("surely not!" says Arnie) to 350BHP at 10000rpm with a much broader torque spread. Rumour has it that some motors have been sold and either Swindon or SBD have seen a couple. Robert (can't be bother with all the BC arguments anymore) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted November 3, 2001 Share Posted November 3, 2001 Bob , just out of interest , how does the weight of a DTM V6 compare to a KB or rover K ?? . dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Corb Posted November 4, 2001 Share Posted November 4, 2001 I've heard figures of 85kg quoted for the final evolution called KF, that one made 480BHP, but it was a bit fragile. I think the new Duratec is about 105kg. Zetec and vx are heavier. Not sure about the K. Someone used one in a 306 4wd rally car with pretty good results. A bit weird hearing something that sounds like an F1 car in a welsh forest! Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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