Richard J Darnell Posted October 31, 2001 Share Posted October 31, 2001 The 2 main upgrades I wanted to do to my 1.6SS were 13" wheels and 6 speed box. I've now done the wheels and have started making enquiries about the 6 speed box. confused.gif Most postings on this site suggest it will be one of the best upgrades I can make but a few comments have made me pause. One owner who switched, loved the 6 speed on the track but was considering going back to the 5 speed for the overdrive 5th. A couple of garages have also almost put me off for similar reasons plus I think the shift quality of my 5 speed is very good. My question is: For the people who have actually made the switch, was it worth the £2.3k Caterham are charging or am I better off spending my money in other ways? From your experience, do you think I'll get more pleasure from a 5 peed box or from spending the same money on an engine upgrade? Forgive me if this is going over old ground but my head is hurting from thinking about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmar Posted October 31, 2001 Share Posted October 31, 2001 Richard - I went from a car with a 5 speed SC/CR box to a car with a 6 speed the difference is huge, even though I loved the SC/CR the 6 speeder makes the entire car come alive. Admitedly there where other changes between the car (brakes, steering, wheels, tyres , light flywheel etc) but this is the 1 main area that has made the car for me. I do/did trackdays so maybe I am biased. I do use more petrol and it is running at higher revs but it is worth it You could get a decent engine upgrade for the money especially if you are doing it yourself however i would go for the box. Maybe you should try a car with a 6 speed box first rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted October 31, 2001 Share Posted October 31, 2001 Richard, Two points: The overdrive effect is not lost if you change the diff ratio (approx cost £125 dep3epnding on ratio) The six speeders can be purchased used from Phil Stewart at Road Race Transmissions (01959 525105) from around £1400 - a signifcant saving. These boxes have all the latest mods completed and are good as new. So you can similar cruising ability plus 5 gears in the space of the first 4. I would say a 3.62 diff is the best option in your car. It probably currently has a 3.92 Your old gearbox is worth £300ish secondhand (assuming its a std ford box) if it was new with the car. Double that figure if its a strainght cut Quaife) Fat Arn The NOW PROVEN R500 Eaterid=red> See the Lotus Seven Club 4 Counties Area Website hereid=green> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony isherwood Posted November 1, 2001 Share Posted November 1, 2001 Or Modify your 5 speed ala BGH with a higher first and lower 5th. A bit of a comprimise but a very good one for the price approx 500 pounds maybe less. And more to spend elsewhere. Worked V well on my 1400SS, which really needs the 6 speed because its torqueless compared with its bigger cc brothers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murph7355 Posted November 1, 2001 Share Posted November 1, 2001 Arnie - do you and Chris Clark gang up on people to get these deals? Can I join in the next time either of you are buying stuff? I had a long chat with Phil when getting my poorly 6spd repaired and he categorically said that he doesn't sell boxes. He did note that he had a "spare" that he sometimes would loan customers in a fix, but he does not sell them... Richard - that said, buy the 6spd. I very much doubt you'll regret it. I run a 3.92 diff (acceleration being more important to me than 10mph or so on the top speed, which you're rarely likely to reach anyway) and it pulls about 5k revs at 80mph. Roof up or down I find that wind and tyre noise are a much bigger "problem" at this speed (and above) than engine/gearbox noise so the gearbox doesn't make a blind bit of difference when cruising (IMO). But when you want to put your foot down the 6spd truly changes the car to something much, much better. If you do a lot of cruising then a shorter (or is it longer when the number drops?) as Arnie noted might be a good idea. A modified 5spd would be another option. I would have thought, however, that the 6spd option would help the car's value along more should you ever sell it (6spd equipped cars are between 1k-2k more from what Ive seen than those with std. 5spds). And the 6spd was designed specifically, 100% with these cars in mind. Shift quality on a nice 6spd is also superb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Martyr Posted November 6, 2001 Share Posted November 6, 2001 I made the change. It turned the car into a proper Seven. Buy the box Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster Posted November 6, 2001 Share Posted November 6, 2001 Arnie mentioned changing diff ratios...does this mean that you can simply unbolt the crownwheel and bolt on the new one?? Will it upset the 'preload' that I keep hearing about? If it is as simple as that..I'm not going to work tommorow, I'm playing with the diff! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted November 7, 2001 Share Posted November 7, 2001 No you send it to a diff expert. Around £125 should see the job doemn inc. parts (so long as the ratio is a Ford ratio) Fat Arn The NOW PROVEN R500 Eaterid=red> See the Lotus Seven Club 4 Counties Area Website hereid=green> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike ashurst Posted November 7, 2001 Share Posted November 7, 2001 Any one tell me what the the respective box ratios are? I'm considering going down this road myself. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Richard Price Posted November 7, 2001 Area Representative Share Posted November 7, 2001 Mike, I've been trying to make the same decision. These are the ratios I've been looking at:- 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th standard ratios 3.36 1.81 1.26 1 0.82 caterham 6 speed 2.69 2.01 1.59 1.32 1.13 1 QUAIFE Race 2.04 1.54 1.21 1 0.87 QUAIFE Race low top 2.04 1.54 1.21 1 0.93 QUAIFE Rally 2.39 1.69 1.21 1 0.87 QUAIFE Rally low top 2.39 1.69 1.21 1 0.93 QUAIFE Rally/Race 2.2 1.54 1.21 1 0.87 QUAIFE Rally/Race low top 2.2 1.54 1.21 1 0.93 I've decided that for my proposed 1.6K 6 speed is the best way to go. If you're a 123 user, I have a spreadsheet with these various ratios, final drive ratios and wheel and tyre size, but it doesn't copy into Excel very well. Edited by - richard price on 7 Nov 2001 10:33:58 Edited by - richard price on 7 Nov 2001 10:34:57 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike ashurst Posted November 7, 2001 Share Posted November 7, 2001 Richard, thanks for the info, very interesting. I'm not a 123 user unfortunately, but I might be able to do something in the way of a conversion. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Richard Price Posted November 7, 2001 Area Representative Share Posted November 7, 2001 Mike, You have mail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Hammond Posted November 8, 2001 Share Posted November 8, 2001 So with all the above said, what would a 6 speed box do for your 0 - 60 time on a 1.6SS ? L17 KAR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Skid Posted November 9, 2001 Share Posted November 9, 2001 Arnie, The US spec Caterham 6 speed already has a 3.62 ratio. How much lower should I specify it changed for the 6th gear overdrive effect? Thanks, Sid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted November 9, 2001 Share Posted November 9, 2001 I too have asked Phil at R & R about recon 6 speeders for £1400. He dismissed it as total rubbish and says he never gets them to sell. He just repairs them for customers. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted November 9, 2001 Share Posted November 9, 2001 I queried this with Phil. He will supply boxes refurbed for this figure (plus dreaded) but the original units do not become available too often, hence the supply issue. Guess you'll have to put your money on the line to leasd the queue..... So its not rubbish, he must just have had one when I bought mine. Fat Arn The NOW PROVEN R500 Eaterid=red> See the Lotus Seven Club 4 Counties Area Website hereid=green> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snapper Posted November 9, 2001 Share Posted November 9, 2001 I have just gotten rid of my 1.6k SS with a 5 speed box, I test drove the same engine with a six speed box and made my mind up by the time I hit the sixth gear... Test drive a six speed and don't look back..wink.gif Traded car insad.gif... Empty Garage at the momenteek.gif, New Superlight on orderteeth.gif... Can go Blatting for a whileeek.gif!!! B u g g e rconfused.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard J Darnell Posted November 12, 2001 Author Share Posted November 12, 2001 thanks for all the replies I've convinced myself a 6 speed is the way to go, so the next question is getting one and fitting it. Caterham are advertising a 6 speed box fitted in exchange for a 5 speed for £2,345. The box on its own costs £2,291. If I fit this myself I can then sell the 5 speed for £300 (says Arnie), but how easy is it easy to fit a 6 speed box gearbox? The other option is to get the box fitted by someone but can I do this for much less than £350? Any other dears for keeping costs down? (I called Phil who confirmed that he could not supply a re-conditioned box) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted November 12, 2001 Share Posted November 12, 2001 Richard, I guess Redline in Caterham could do a box swap. you'd have to get a quote from them, but they would probably be most competitive....01883 346515 I dont know what Phil S is playing at unless he meant he cannot supply because he has no old units to recon. Fat Arn The NOW PROVEN R500 Eaterid=red> See the Lotus Seven Club 4 Counties Area Website hereid=green> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murph7355 Posted November 12, 2001 Share Posted November 12, 2001 He obviously just likes you Arnie. I suspect he likes me too now after my recent wallet emptying sessions. However, he IS a top guy and I will never have transmission work done by anyone else now (though if he keeps letting Ole Fart Arse in his shop, especially brandishing mallets near my parts I might change that opinion). Richard - I would think that most Caterham specialist places should be able to swap your box out for 350 or (perhaps much) less. This works out at something like 8hrs labour or so at the outside. Not renowned for my mechanical prowess, or my powers of perseverence I'd probably take the Caterham route. No hassles selling the box after, no dirty bits to cart around and if the job ends up being a bitch Caterham will still only charge you the same amount. If you have some folding stuff readily available (apart from sending it to me) why not ask our friends in Dartford if they'd do you a deal if you had a couple of other upgrades done at the same time? Edited by - andy murphy on 13 Nov 2001 12:12:50 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard J Darnell Posted December 1, 2001 Author Share Posted December 1, 2001 On the basis of comments on Blatchat I have now taken the plunge and today I picked up my car with its new 6 speed box. Wow!! Car feels so much faster - I have already scared myself half to death by the sheer grunt. Three initial thoughts: 1. The gearbox is quite stiff - in particular, it is hard to get second gear. Is this just because it is new or they all like this? Ratrace said they put in some high quality race spec gearbox oil if this makes a difference. It also whines more than my 5 speed. 2. I keep getting 5th rather than 3rd when I'm going for a fast change. I guess I will just need to get use to it, but I still managed to out drag an hard driven Elise! 3. I don't miss the overdrive gear of the 5 speed like I thought. Let's hope it is dryer tomorrow so I can give it another go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard J Darnell Posted December 1, 2001 Author Share Posted December 1, 2001 I meant to add that anyone thinking of this upgrade should be aware that the Caterham 6 speed gear knob does not fit without paying another £100 or so to change the leaver to a quick-shift one. Apparently, if you buy a new car with a 6 speed box you get the quick-shift for free! Having just spent the best part of 2.5k on this upgrade I'm more than a little annoyed that they don't include the quick-shif lever as part of the upgrade. In the meantime I'm driving around in a 6 speed with a 5 speed gear knob. Is the quick-shift much nicer? Not sure I want to spend anymore money on the car just yet...oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murph7355 Posted December 1, 2001 Share Posted December 1, 2001 Richard - first up, well done on getting the box. It'll grow on you more and more. Now: 1) Double check that Ratrace put in 80 grade GL4 non-synthetic oil. They should have, having had this confirmed by Phil Stewart when mine was done. But check. 2) Don't buy a quick shift. I'm not sure the comment about the lever is true (but stranger things have been done by Caterham) as the quick shift is still optional so a gear knob *must* fit. Often they neglect to fit the "extension" piece which costs a couple of quid and allows the std 6 speed knob to fit. Worst case, get a 3rd party gear knob - you can buy ones that make it taller to use and therefore easier to change gear which are worth the extra. I have a carbon/leather Momo - cost 30GBP, took 10mins to fit and is a million times better than any Caterham one in use. The quickshift isn't worth the hassle (ask Peter Carmichael or Phil Stewart). And it's a lot heavier than the std. assembly. 3) It should loosen up nicely with use. They're all a bit stiff and notchy to begin with. 4) Slotting 5th is easy on the std. gate spring. Phil Stewart can uprate this to help for 15GBP, but the box has to come out I think. You will get used to it as is though so I'd persevere for now. Some of them are noisier than others. Some have asked if mine is straight cut! I actually love the noise it makes though!! 5) ENJOY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric Posted December 2, 2001 Share Posted December 2, 2001 Hi Richard, 5 versus 6 In fact the answer belongs to you. If you use the 5th gear when you drive your car and you like it, my advise would be : stay with your 5 speed box. If you never use it and always stay in 4 th speed go for 6 speed box without hesitation. Better performance, more noise, all we love... The reason is simple when you are in 6 with the 6 speed box you are in 4 with the 5 speed box (same ratio, direct 1:1) With my sprint Xflow I like using the 5th so I never go for 6. I tested a K series recently and I never use the 5 so I will go for 6 But It is just my taste Just an idea : but without finance sorry Why don't you have a windscreen car with 5 speeds and another without windscreen but with 6 speeds Could be the better solution as it is 2 different cars for different use. regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edmandsd Posted December 3, 2001 Share Posted December 3, 2001 Edited by - edmandsd on 3 Dec 2001 14:01:01 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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