AMMO Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 Congratulations to Rob Walker for building the most powerful Duratec engine to be tested at Emerald's rolling road. 280 bhp (279.6 bhp actually) and 209 ft lb of torque. Needless to say owner Tom Hood is also very happy. They went straight from Emerald up to Cadwell so that the car can be used in anger for the first time tomorrow. Lets hope it is dry! My engine built to the same spec. made "only" 273 bhp and 198 ft lb of torque. This was fitted to an Elise and engines alway make less in these (well that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it :-). Duratecs built to the same spec vary in power according to what cams are fitted. 268 cams gave 256 bhp in Robert Grigsby's engine, a mixture of 280 degree inlet and 268 exhaust gave 264 bhp in Mike Head's and now we have Tom's engine with 280 cams making 280 bhp. Well done Rob AMMO Edited by - Ammo on 3 May 2005 20:03:35 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 Woof! Project Scope-Creep is live... Alcester Racing 7's Equipe - 🙆🏻™ Alcester-Racing-Sevens.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dobuy Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 Excellent result, should make up for all that extra weight the poor old Duratec has to drag around. Pity my new one with 280' cams will never see a dyno out here in the sand pit Duratec Se7en SV, built in Dubai, pics here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted May 3, 2005 Author Share Posted May 3, 2005 Forgot to say that the car was flat floored and weighed in at 519 kilos but very low on fuel. That makes it an R 538 😬 AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edmandsd Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 Great result. At what rpm's ? Home of BDR700 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgrigsby Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 Any chance of a scan of the power curve? I'd be interested to see how the torque is distributed in comparison to my engine. What gearbox is he running? I guess it's something pretty strong like a Quaife dog box, 280bhp would be a bit to much for my BGH 5 speed I think!! Was that one four or eight injectors? were they in the head and throttle bodies if it was eight? or throttle bodies and trumpets? Superb result, as an aside my car weighed in at around 515 on the Emerald scales taking account of the fuel I had in it. That was with the "heavy" wheels, with the R500 wheel and tyre it's even lighter 😬 still only an R498! Rob G www.SpeedySeven.com Edited by - rgrigsby on 3 May 2005 21:14:45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted May 3, 2005 Author Share Posted May 3, 2005 Dave Made 280 bhp at 8,000 once initial mapping was done. Only took it up there once. Eventually got just shy of 280 at 7,500rpm. Rob wanted to go over 8,000 as power seemed to be still rising. Tom put his foot down and said no. I agreed with him. Engine now has 7,500 rpm rev. limit. Hopefully Tom will post the printout once he gets back from Cadwell. AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted May 3, 2005 Author Share Posted May 3, 2005 Rob Think it was a Quaife pro box? 8 injectors in head and bodies. I'm sure Tom and Rob will eventually be along and tell you all about it. AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgrigsby Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 Ahh ok a bit more of a serious gearbox than mine, sounds like a great engine though. Have you persuaded anyone to make a really serious 2.3/2.5 yet? 😬 Rob G www.SpeedySeven.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Woo Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 Sounds like good news for those who don't want a CSR. I presume you could tune it for more torque and sacrifice some power, would that make it better or worse for road use? Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RESOLVIWOLF Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 crikey ... thats big power in a caterham sub 1.30 at cadwell then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted May 3, 2005 Author Share Posted May 3, 2005 Rob No, a bored 2.3 is on the cards once I have built a hot 2 litre. The market for 2.4 /2.5 engines is for rallying as I think it will be a tad too much in a Caterham. You never know, there might be somebody daft enough to try one out in a Seven. Not me though! Mr Woo Tom's car had four sacks of sand and three people keeping it down on the rollers. It already has enough torque. It needs somebody capable to keep it from swapping ends I think. As somebody pointed out in another thread it is probably no worse than a powerful motorbike. It has to be treated with a lot of respect. AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannylt Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 Would also be interested to see how the mid range torque compares to our cooking 250bhp versions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edmandsd Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 DannyIt - What was the peak torque on yours ? I wouldn't be too disheartened as rolling roads can read very differently - as much as 20bhp is not unusual at these levels. Steve Greenauld's doing quite a bit of work with Aaron Tucker at HT Racing at the moment and the general consensus is that his 'new' r'road is comparable with the figures they're seeing on their dyno. What's the spec of your engine - it's Mountune built isn't it ? Home of BDR700 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mic Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 Dave I built the engine in Danny's car, and Steve Greenauld re-mapped it. The engine was run in by Mountune and mapped on ther dyno.The max torque and bhp figure were almost identical. Dannys engine is using 270 cams,arrow rods ,omega pistons.ported head. Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gridgway Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 out of interest, how much does 280bhp cost in a duratec? Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Walker Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 Just back from Cadwell. The car and driver survived despite being very wet in the morning. In the afternoon it was dry so Tom was able to give it some welly and came back into the pits witha big grin boasting that he was able to pass four cars in one overtaking manouver. All in all a very satisfactory result. Big thanks to Ammo and Mic Attree who have been very helpgfull both in freely giving out technical info and supplying some hard to get parts. Rob, yes the gear box is the pro quaife. The wheels were MB mag split rims. When all the final bits are fitted headlights, passenger seat & harness, half doors the weight is going to be around 530 Kg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Walker Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 Just back from Cadwell. The car and driver survived despite being very wet in the morning. In the afternoon it was dry so Tom was able to give it some welly and came back into the pits witha big grin boasting that he was able to pass four cars in one overtaking manouver. All in all a very satisfactory result. Big thanks to Ammo and Mic Attree who have been very helpgfull both in freely giving out technical info and supplying some hard to get parts. Rob, yes the gear box is the pro quaife. The wheels were MB mag split rims. When all the final bits are fitted headlights, passenger seat & harness, half doors the weight is going to be around 530 Kg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Walker Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 Just back from Cadwell. The car and driver survived despite being very wet in the morning. In the afternoon it was dry so Tom was able to give it some welly and came back into the pits witha big grin boasting that he was able to pass four cars in one overtaking manouver. All in all a very satisfactory result. Big thanks to Ammo and Mic Attree who have been very helpgfull both in freely giving out technical info and supplying some hard to get parts. Rob, yes the gear box is the pro quaife. The wheels were MB mag split rims. When all the final bits are fitted headlights, passenger seat & harness, half doors the weight is going to be around 530 Kg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Walker Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 Just back from Cadwell. The car and driver survived despite being very wet in the morning. In the afternoon it was dry so Tom was able to give it some welly and came back into the pits witha big grin boasting that he was able to pass four cars in one overtaking manouver. All in all a very satisfactory result. Big thanks to Ammo and Mic Attree who have been very helpgfull both in freely giving out technical info and supplying some hard to get parts. Rob, yes the gear box is the pro quaife. The wheels were MB mag split rims. When all the final bits are fitted headlights, passenger seat & harness, half doors the weight is going to be around 530 Kg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted May 4, 2005 Author Share Posted May 4, 2005 Dave (Edmands) Come over to the Dyno / Curry 5 thing we have planned. Your car can have immediately another 20 bhp! 😬 Seriously, lots of Seven owners who are Emerald ECU fans have used Dave Walker's rolling road . I tend to use all dynos as comparators not as a measure of absolute power. I justify the claims as a comparison of other people who have also used the same facility. The confusion starts when people are quoting different figures from different dynos. We are gradually seeing what engines are doing what according to spec. I would rather use an engine dyno any day of the week but the roling road is so convenient. Engine brakes can also lie. We experienced that with the Crescent Suzuki. Front running, championship winning teams use rolling roads too. The important thing is to come away from the session with more than you arrived with. Then go out on the track and kick arse. Rob Would have liked to see Tom's face 😬 Please get him to post the dyno sheet. Stupidly I never got a copy. Would like one for my files. AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain chaos Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 Following up on a previous posting...whats a 280 bhp Duratec costing then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 About the same for a XE unit i would have thought. Is it really a lot cheaper then Ammo ? Carbon Components from K9 Composites Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgrigsby Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 For which bits? just the engine? complete install including bell housing, exhaust etc? I'm guessing a complete install with everything you need to get it in the car on a dry sumped 2.3L duratec is going to be the best part of 13K ish maybe a little more. From what I can tell once you get to around 250bhp the difference in cost for the extra to get to 280bhp isn't that great, it's just different cams, extra injectors, more compression and I guess a bit more work on the head. No idea how that compares with an XE though, you've got to bear in mind that around £2K of that is the original cost of the engine, £1k is the exhaust system, another £800 is the ecu+loom, £320+vat for the cam cover, £1k for the dry sump system+tank. The engine itself whilst not cheap isn't that bad considering the power. It's all the extras you need to get it to fit a car that add up. I guess that's the case with most engines though, the Duratec is worse as everything is on the other side! I could be completley wrong but I'm sure Ammo will be along shortly to confirm. Cheers Rob G www.SpeedySeven.com Edited by - rgrigsby on 5 May 2005 07:19:52 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 excellent news Rob So how did the final weight compare to your car ? ( which is in the same spec , apart from engine and box) Was it 34Kg heavier ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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