Tim Sture Posted October 26, 2001 Share Posted October 26, 2001 Am currently looking at trading my car (Academy spec 1.6 Vx 8v live axle) for a k-series. Nothing definite (not sure really have the funds to go for either) but may need to make a choice between: 1. 1.4kss 6-spd - flared wings - older than the 1.6k 2. 1.6k 5 spd - cycle wings - w-reg I want to use the car for competing in the up to 1700cc class. Ideally would like to swap for superlight but funds don't permit so there has to be some compromise. Want to make a good long term choice. Downsides of the 1.6k are the need (eventually) to fit a 6-spd and the resulting large cost. However, in the long run, that might(?) be outweighed by the cost of (possibly) fitting a modded 1.6k to the 1.4 car rather than just modding the engine in the 1.6k (hope you are still with me). Any views on one being a good idea over the other? Or is it 6 of one and half a doz of the other? Is it possible to mod the 1.4 engine or is it better to leave as is and swap for a 1.6 to mod? Thanks in advance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard J Darnell Posted October 26, 2001 Share Posted October 26, 2001 Received wisdom tells me it's better to go for the newer car. I also understand it is easier to upgrade the 1.6 than the 1.4. The 1.6 also has cycle wings which are nicer, running for cover now........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted October 26, 2001 Share Posted October 26, 2001 Tim, How much are they?? Fat Arn The NOW PROVEN R500 Eaterid=red> See the Lotus Seven Club 4 Counties Area Website hereid=green> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Bees Posted October 26, 2001 Share Posted October 26, 2001 You can mod the 1.4 but the 1.6 is a much better bet. OTOH the 6-speed 'box is a must! Tricky decision. Cheapest option is probably to swap the 1.4 for a 1.6, especially if you're going to tweak it. That way you can acquire a scrappy 1.6 and work on it whilst still using the car. Shame about the flared wings though. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHRIS CLARK Posted October 26, 2001 Share Posted October 26, 2001 Bu..er off Mike! The flared wings are the D's B's as opposed to just bo....ks!!! Really though, it is easier to upgrde the 1600 engine when required as the loom is the same and the alternators etc are right. I have just about completed the 1800 conversion from a 1400 and the idea was to have it as Mike said. The 1400 has been used all summer while I built up the 1800 from bits and VVC head etc etc. The idea was to give less 'down time'. Has worked in the main except for ECU problem (& you know of this Mike!!!).More difficult conversion than just 'upgrading'. Six speed G/boxes are relatively difficult to come by second hand at decent prices anyway. What to do? Difficult one really ain't it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Day Posted October 26, 2001 Share Posted October 26, 2001 Like Chris I too have swapped my 1.4k for a later 1.6k. Not easy as quite a few things have to be changed but all info now in public domain. If we assume you can do the work yourself then take Mike Bees advice & go for the one with the 6 speed. Good luck Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oilyhands Posted October 27, 2001 Share Posted October 27, 2001 OTOH, a decent CR 5 speed box isnt that expensive and while not the same as a 6 speed is a darn site better than the stock 5 speed offering, with the extra torque of the 1.6 5 speeds is more than enough. Quaife, BGH and SPC can provide gearsets/complete boxes with a variety of different ratios. Oily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted October 27, 2001 Share Posted October 27, 2001 A 5 spd h/d c/r gear kit costs £700 plus you have to rebuild the box. (A god thing as the syncro rings need regular replacement if you drive hard) A six speedbox can be obtained secondhand for RRT with all latest spec mods for aroud £1400. The six speed is quiet vs the straight cust 5 spd c/r and has better ratio's for an engine with a narrow power band, like a std K, 1.4 or 1.6 Go for the 1.6 with a plan to swap the gearbox. The std 5 spd gearboxes change hands for around £400 if they are in good low mileage condition. Fat Arn The NOW PROVEN R500 Eaterid=red> See the Lotus Seven Club 4 Counties Area Website hereid=green> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JP Posted October 27, 2001 Share Posted October 27, 2001 Seems expensive FA. I'm looking for a re-ratio 5spd for my 1.6KSS - I spoke to BGH and we were talking in the region of £400-£500 (gearbox, not kit). I suppose if you're going to race then the 6spd is more of a need. Bear in mind also that widetrack suspension requires cycle wings (this may be an MOT issue rather than absolute neccessity). James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted October 27, 2001 Share Posted October 27, 2001 JP, The BGH boxes are an unknown quantity as there are not many around. BGH was the guy who designed the Caterham 6 speed orighinally - look how many changes have been made to get it reliable! I was refering in my text to the Quaife heavy duty needle roller kit, 000's of which have been sold. There is a cheaper plain bearing version (around £200 less) but these are prone to failure in cars whith much power. I drove a car with the BGH in a few years ago. Couldn't engage 1st on the move -critical if you want to have fun! Fat Arn The NOW PROVEN R500 Eaterid=red> See the Lotus Seven Club 4 Counties Area Website hereid=green> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JP Posted October 27, 2001 Share Posted October 27, 2001 FA, Interesting. Particularly your last sentence, BGH's selling point (in our phone calls) was the improved 1/2 change to provide a useable 1st for slow hairpins on track. Thank God I haven't coughed up any cash yet! James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted October 28, 2001 Share Posted October 28, 2001 James Save your dosh for a 6 speed. They are better suited in terms of ratioa and more reliable than any other gearbox which has graced the output of my engine. Fat Arn The NOW PROVEN R500 Eaterid=red> See the Lotus Seven Club 4 Counties Area Website hereid=green> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oilyhands Posted October 28, 2001 Share Posted October 28, 2001 Nothing against the 6 speed, but the early ones dissolved into lime jelly quite easily, I believe later ones are improved. Arnie, I'd speak with Brian Hill about the design of the 6 speed before condemning his original design. As I remember he said large parts of it were 'improved' at the outset of manufacture to cut costs and fit with stocks of available parts and it was these 'improvements' that led to the subsequent problems. I have a BGH box and it has proved entirely reliable, quiet and faultless, 1st gear is no problem to engage on the move , the ratios are sweet and the change slick. I know at least a dozen other BGH owners who all swear by the quality of the box.BGH also improve the lubrication and gearshift as part of the build. I've heard as many tales of woe about the 6 speed and Quaife boxes as of any other. Think carefully about your overall gearing with the 6 speed since 6th is direct and not an overdrive gear like with the 5 speed box, this can have quite an affect on the gearing. With a 6 speeder you might want a higher diff. Oily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted October 28, 2001 Share Posted October 28, 2001 Oily, My "facts" are based upon information from an "expert" source..... Thinks lime making the selector forks wider or position of lubrication openings in gears are not really cost related - pure design.... As I say I have only driven 1 car with a BGH box in about 1996 - a 215 Zetc belonging to then club ad man Steve Davidson. It flatly refused to engage 1st on the move, and when Steve took it back to BGH he was told "working as intended" Your comments on gearing are very true. In my car holding 100mph (on the circuit of course Officer) means 6000rpm - gets a bit tiring after a while....... Would reccomend a 3.38 diff with a six speed for a road car with 130lb/ft of torque, a 3.62 for less torqey engines. I'm looking at 13" wheels on the front and 16" on the rear to enable quick changes to the gearing..... Yeah I know it'll look like a dragster! Fat Arn The NOW PROVEN R500 Eaterid=red> See the Lotus Seven Club 4 Counties Area Website hereid=green> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Saunders Posted October 28, 2001 Share Posted October 28, 2001 Arn, more of a dragster you mean .. vauxhall engined caterhams weren't designed for corners were they ! teeth.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gridgway Posted October 28, 2001 Share Posted October 28, 2001 if you are trading in with Caterham and you are happy to negotiate, you could ask how much they would charge to change the 5 for a 6spd especially if they have a 2nd hand one. Bit of a long shot, but worth asking especially if you are standing there able to do the deal there and then! If you don't ask etc! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted October 28, 2001 Share Posted October 28, 2001 Jimmy, Tell that to Dave Kimberly...... Fat Arn The NOW PROVEN R500 Eaterid=red> See the Lotus Seven Club 4 Counties Area Website hereid=green> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Sture Posted October 29, 2001 Author Share Posted October 29, 2001 Thanks to all Have decided to give the 1400 a miss (that is at a garage) and am back to the 1600 (which is owned by a colleague and I can wait until spring before needing to go ahead with the purchase!). Mind you, I think the back (live) axle on my car suffered some damage yesterday - started sounding like a sick thing in a sick, noisy sort of way. Rats. And the wife wants to save some money into a pension, too which might scupper things entirely for a while. Maybe remortgaging the house is the solution! Thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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