What's all the fuss about with Duratec's

[AMMO]

Aw, c'mon. Somebody say that the Duratec is crap so we can keep this thread going.

 

AMMO

[I.Mupferit]

What and risk Ford Motor Company suing the club 🤔 🤔 🤔 🤔

 

Are you mad 🤔 🤔 🤔 😬 😬 😬

 

Brent

 

2.3 DURATEC SV NII OAW

R 417.39 😬

[Casbar]

The Duratec is probably a fine engine, but you know, this is like when the K came along, the 'K' brigade, slagged everything else off and nothing was as good as the new engine.

 

Now we have the Duratec brigade!

 

I bought a K, last year, after upgrading my xflow, and I think its a fine engine and does very well. I don't have £££ to upgrade to a Duratec (if I wanted to) so will adopt a wait and see what if anything goes wrong with the Duratec, in the future before jumping on the band wagon.

 

 

 

 

[Mike Bees]

Hey Ammo, it must be crap, you know it is, because... the exhaust is on the wrong side. Oh, and it says "Ford" on it.

 

Like Ammo's (arguably) irrational distaste of all things Rover, I have an (arguably) irrational distaste of all things Ford.

 

Mike

 

Edited by - Mike Bees on 29 Apr 2005 08:07:58

[Mr Woo]

Being totally new to this I like the sound of the Duratech despite always having been a VW engine fan and slagging off rough Ford units :) What has brought about this change you ask? Simple really I love Sevens and would love one with decent power that didn't cost the earth... That said money no object I would probably go out and buy a stupidly expensive engine

[Wayne Powers]

A friend of mine who works in the development/research dept. of Cosworth who I've spoken with since this thread started has informed me that the original 2 & 2.3 ltr blocks were never designed to exceed 240hp. As a result 2 stress points have been identified, in his own words 'its a great cheap engine in stand guise'.

 

His opinion is that you should stick with the 2ltr and take it upto 230-235 hp and retain reliability / strength. Overall for tuning the engine isn't that great. He's advise is to spend a little more money and have a tuned k-series.

 

I hope this inside information is useful and puts this k-series / duratec debate to bed.

[Mike Bees]

Is this April 1?

[Wayne Powers]

Forgot to mention that was just a wind-up.

Call me sick if you like.

[Jason Plato]

whats the weight of a duratec engine vs K ?

 

Duratec is 26Kg heavier in the exact same state of dress

 

I'm afraid this is my one and only argument (assuming you are starting a build from scratch ) 😬

[AMMO]

Casbar

 

Yeah, 'cos the K's never go wrong! I can see the K brigade rubbing their hands together in glee when the first Duratec goes pop in a big way. So far so good. But thrash any engine and there is always the possibility. I know a guy who can break anything. All he has to do is go down two or three gears for a corner and he can get the rods to hang out. (the best thing is that when you ask him what happened he says "Dunno, it just stopped" until you check the datalogger and find he's over-revved by around 3,000 rpm!). So it is not always the poor engine's fault when tthings go wrong.

 

Although I say the Duratec is in its infancy it has actually been around since 2000. A friend races and prepares them and has no trouble. The Mountune engines seem reliable in rallying in Ireland. Not heard anything bad apart from a cam chain tensioning issue that is only a problem at around 9,000 rpm. There is a fix for that.

 

Brent

 

Never thought of that! As for being mad, I think the answer is no (you would have to ask my shrink) although I do get a bit unsettled at times.

 

AMMO

[Casbar]

Yep can't wait

[AMMO]

Casbar 😬 😬 😬

 

An honest man.

 

Mike

 

What do you mean "irrational" distaste for all things Rover? OK you did say arguably. 😬

 

AMMO

[RESOLVIWOLF]

"What's all the fuss about with Duratec's"

 

 

errrrrrrrrrr, its cheap, its reliable

beyond that, WGAF ?

 

[RESOLVIWOLF]

"Duratec is 26Kg heavier"

 

you mean the 2.3 there because my 2 litre car weighst exactly the same as an R400 plus or minus a few kg

[Jason Plato]

Jakal ,

 

Do you mean your complete car weighs the same as a R400 or your 2l engine weighs the same as a 1800 R400 spec K ?

 

Trust me on the figures ~ 26Kg

 

[RESOLVIWOLF]

if your figures are correct then basically an R400 with doors and windscreen and no heater and mags weighs under 500kg

 

 

 

 

 

which quite clearly isn't the case !

 

 

there again maybe your figures are correct and theres some other parameter that keeps my car light ?

 

Edited by - jackal on 29 Apr 2005 11:42:43

[Jason Plato]

I have no idea what you are on about Jackal talking in riddle 😬 , 2 engines were weighed in the same state of dress on the same scales , 1x tuned and tweeked 2.3 Duratec & 1x steel cranked 230bhp 1800K , the scales were checked and they were also correct . I even have photos if required

 

 

 

edited to say 1800K not 1900K

 

 

 

Edited by - Dave Jackson on 29 Apr 2005 12:09:25

[Dobuy]

Dave, I know you like this 26kg number & I Don't doubt it is heavier than a K series. But as said before your K series has a steel crank. The 2.3 Duratec has the a truck crank as stock, drop in a nice steel one or even a shaved standard one and you will see a big saving.

Apples with apples, flywheels, clutches, cranks, rods etc. would need to be of same spec before your 26kg really stacks up.

 

Duratec Se7en SV, built in Dubai, pics here!

[TorAtle]

I'm not surprised. The Duratec has always seemed quite a bit larger in the various photos I've seen.

 

Do you have the numbers for both engines at hand Dave? I am curious what other engines Duratec can compare with weightwise...

[julians]

26kg sounds a lot, putting it in zetec territory I would guess, but that doesent appear to stack up.

 

What were the absolute/actual weights of each engine?

[Jason Plato]

I know many hold the Duratec close to their hearts , and as I have said the weight argumet is all I have in my favour ( if starting from scratch ) 😬

 

The K was 79Kg . The duranail 26Kg more This was also whitnessed by the well respected and known club member who built up the Duratec . I'm not telling you his name today cos the Duratec concerned is on the emerald rollers very soon and he will want to tell you all about it himself *thumbup*you will have to wait untill next week ( ooohhhhh the suspense 😬 )

 

Dobuy , I appreciate what you are saying about different spec components being used , but my steel crank is also heavier than a std K series crank .

 

We are however comparing two engines in the same Caterham application ready to fit in a Caterham , so taking 2 exact same cars but with different engines , one will weigh 26Kg more on the front end ........ the K would make 235 > 245 bhp and the duratec will hopefully make more than 260 bhp

 

gotta go now , my pies are calling 😬

 

 

 

 

 

 

[RESOLVIWOLF]

"This was also whitnessed by the well respected and known club member who built up the Duratec"

 

LMAO .... bang on the money there dave.

 

 

 

 

tell you my story, which was witnessed by a couple of pikeys, individuals who generally are pretty wary of a lot of the mythology that gets pedalled round by "the club":

 

2 cars were weighed in the same state of dress on the same scales, one with my engine and the other a standard R400 in almost the exact same like for like state with the same significant weight important components matched up (like rims, windscreen etc..) The weight was almost the same (523kg) give or take a couple of kg.

 

 

now look, personally i dgaf about weights as i dont compete or consdier the zenith of human experience to be a miserable two-bit downcast p1ssing-it-down wth rain day out at santa pod etc.. .... but i'd be interested to solve this riddle of yours. You're saying that if you dropped a VHPD into my car it would weight less than 500kg, less than a real world R500 with half doors, slicks and aero. I dont think so. Maybe its something to do with 2.3, maybe its to do with lightweight bits and bobs that my installation has ? Wahetevr the case, your 26kg thing which seems to have already become a BlatAxiom doesn't necessarily 100% translate into teh real worl 100% of the time .... and i think you should know this.

[Scuffers]

just to put in my 2d worth...

 

Durex is almost idential in weight to the K (2L one that is)

 

keep seeing people quote K's at silly light wieghts, but all the ones I have weighed are nothing like that little, dressed they are normally between 95-100Kg's.

 

The durex converstion for the Elise actually come in slightly under the K in weight.

 

assides all that, the Honda K20 is a way better engine than both on them 😬

 

 

[Jason Plato]

I dont have a problem with you Jakal if you dont agree or believe . I too dont care so much

 

But I still fail to understand what on earth you are jibbering on about with total car weights of a R400 with this, that and the other on it, compared to another car with this that and the other plus a 2l duranail under the bonnet you realy are a very odd bloke at times , I only hope that your doctor understands you cos I havent a chuffing clue .......... I havent said anything about dropping a different engine in your car ......

 

allow me to repeat and please do your best to listen this time cos I think you have a short attention span 😬 😬 😬 😬 😬

 

2 blokes , 2 engines , 1 scale , 1 x k series fully dressed = 79Kg , 1 x 2.3 duranail fully dressed = 105kg

 

I'm not on about a 2 l , maybe they weigh less ? , I dunno ........ I'm not on about a complete car .......

 

I accept that variables will occur . I could have used realy light flywheel on the K , I could have saved another Kg using a lighter coil pack ......... the duratec could have had a lighter crank rather than use the std , the K could have had a lightweight alternator ......all I am saying is that the 2 engines that were weighed - one in 230 + bhp spec and the duratec as you would fit to a caterham with about 260bhp ( to be confirmed on the rollers next week) , paying very carefull attention to the components that were on the engines to be sure we dont upset die hard duranail drivers were 26kg apart .....

 

I accept that this may vary and may not translate into the real world 100% of the time as engine specs of both the K and the duranail will vary - I have never claimed it would . I simply said what the differences were

[Jason Plato]

Hello Scuffers , long time and all that .........