Nick Woods Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 I've always checked my oil by starting the engine from cold and letting it idle for a couple of minutes, then check the level with it running. The last time I did this the level was about 3mm below the mark but I decided to leave it as it was rather than risk overfilling it. After a long blat yesterday I got home and stopped the engine for a few minutes, no more than 5 at the most, and then decided to check the oil again. I let it idle for 2-3 minutes and when I checked it the level was 3mm above the mark - or in other words the level had gone up about 6mm . I'm sure I pushed the dipstick home properly both times so I can only assume there is some other mechanism at work here . Can anyone explain it ? The car is a 1.6K SS with an Apollo tank Nick Red and Black 1.6K supersport visit Carrotland.co.uk Edited by - Nick Woods on 18 Apr 2005 09:09:52 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Support Team Shaun_E Posted April 18, 2005 Support Team Share Posted April 18, 2005 If the oil is hot and therefore less viscous it probably drains back into the sump more quickly. I have always checked the oil when the engine is hot (and running). Yellow SL #32 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Collins Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 Apart from vehicles with loads of electric gizzmoss that check the oil for you with the engine runing by gauges on the dash eg a Bently, all other cars need the engine to be switched off when the oil is diped. Your cars will be over filled with oil and if you cain them you could do loads of damage. The only thing you chech with the engine running is auto transmition fluid and I assume that you Caterham dose not have one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davef Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 Nick, The handbook says to get the engine to "normal operating temperature" - I've interpreted this as getting the oil hot. Shaun is correct in that the viscosity is going to change - also the oil is going to expand by a small amount. Stehpen - Caterhams with Apollo tanks (and 16V wet sumps) are check with the "engine still running" - all from the book. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Woods Posted April 18, 2005 Author Share Posted April 18, 2005 Stephen - have you read the FAQ here ? Normally I'd agree with you but in this installation the oil has to be checked with the engine running because of the shallow sump installation. Most recent K-series come with a sticker on top of the engine which says check with the engine running Shaun - I assume from what you're saying that cool oil must get retained somewhere in the system but then run down more easily when its hot - therefore my method of checking when 'warming up and running' should be replaced by 'fully hot and running' Nick Red and Black 1.6K supersport visit Carrotland.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Woods Posted April 18, 2005 Author Share Posted April 18, 2005 Dave - I missed your reply as I was replying to the earlier ones. I dont have a handbook so have to rely on what I can find on here and in the FAQ bit. Obviously somewhere along the way I've mistaken/mistinterpreted how hot the oil should be 😳 Nick Red and Black 1.6K supersport visit Carrotland.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbutnotslow Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 Sorry Stephen, that is jst not the case with a 7. They have to be checked running and hot. see here Nick, It is recommended that it be done at normal operating temperature. There may be a little expansion of the oil when its hot but it will be very slight. You know that they are a bu**er to get a good level on that why they recommend that you let then idle for a couple of minutes before dipping. This will allow oil retained in the head to drain back. I think its just a crap way of doing it as there are too many variables at work. Grant Black and stone chip. Engine now running (thanks Oily!) Got the first 100 miles under my belt here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Collins Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 You have my most humble appoliges me and my spanner man will just put some more coal in the boiler..The only thing I would say is that I have never had or heard of a car with an apollo tank, or one you check when runing, if I did not know better I could have run home and ruined my VX 8V. Must get back to the all new side valve engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Woods Posted April 18, 2005 Author Share Posted April 18, 2005 Stephen - The Apollo tank is something inflicted upon us poor K-series owners that cant afford £1500 for a dry sump system. It basically 'spins' the oil to remove any air bubbles which get in during enthusiastic driving . There are a few photos of mine here if you want to improve your education Thanks again Grant - I'll make sure its fully hot from now on. Nick Red and Black 1.6K supersport visit Carrotland.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpy the 7th Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 Nick - how's the HG Engine running (usually after a blat so it's got hot for a reason 😬) I know it's ok before a blat if there's no oil on the floor. I've always been told to slacken the oil filler cap when checking the oil level. I use a clean paper towel to wipe the dipstick then redip the stick for a few seconds then with a clean bit of paper towel - DUE TO THE OIL ALWAYS BEING CLEAN & CLEAR & DIFFICULT TO READ ON A YELLOW BLOB I PUT THE END OF THE STICK ON THE TOWEL & LAY IT OVER TO REST ON THE TOWEL. That way you get a wet line on the towel the lenght of the depth of the oil. On the dipstick with the yellow plastic blob at the end with 'nobbly dots' which dot do you measure to 🤔 - I always adjust the level to the top nobble rog C7 TNT - it's dynamite (Honda Irish Green and Peugeot Graphite grey ) Edited by - roger heeley on 18 Apr 2005 11:12:36 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Woods Posted April 18, 2005 Author Share Posted April 18, 2005 Hi Roger - the HG is fine, how's yours ? I think the lesson I've learnt today is the effect on the oil level between running for a couple of minutes and running until hot. I'd always assumed that once it had a couple of minutes to circulate then the level would stay constant but obviously this isnt the case. I'm sure my dipstick doesnt have any dots - just a line. Nick Red and Black 1.6K supersport visit Carrotland.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjmmarsh Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 My VVC engine has "XXX" on the dipstick in a recessed part - I try to take a reading to the topmost X. However, as mentioned previously it is very difficult to get a sensible reading. I find that one reading will be off the top of the stick, while the next one the stick comes out virtually dry. Also, there seems to be a lot of splashing around (by listening at the top of the dispstick tube), so I suspect this doesn't help with a consistent reading. I get the best readings by turning the engine off, then *immediately* taking a couple of readings. It seems to give more consistent results. One thing to watch for is overfilling the engine - if the oil temp gets a little high then that is a good indicator of too much oil - I think the big end sloshing through the oil heats it up! Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Bishop Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 I thought it was just old sods like me that couldn't see the oil level on the yellow blob! Nice tactic Roger - I'll try it. I found the first fill after construction impossible to judge with clean oil, and I've just been hanging on waiting for the oil to get dirty hoping I don't find it's over-filled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy couchman Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 Sorry to hijack, but what if your 7 is a dry sumped crossflow? Does the check when warm principle still apply? I have tended to check mine when cold and to fill to just over the baffle. From the above that is maybe wrong? Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Support Team Shaun_E Posted April 19, 2005 Support Team Share Posted April 19, 2005 Andy - the instructions above are for K series wet sump only AFAIK. I don't know what the procedure is for a crossflow (dry sump or otherwise). Instructions for K series dry sump are to run car, stop engine and then measure the level in the dry sump tank. I am sure someone else can give you the recommended method for crossflow dry sump. Yellow SL #32 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpy the 7th Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 Phil, that's 2 old sods then 😬 - but it does work coloured paper towel works best rog C7 TNT - it's dynamite (Honda Irish Green and Peugeot Graphite grey ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 One small change I've noticed since removing my foam is that the engine spits small amounts of oil out of the dip-tube when checking the level with the engine running on my Apollo'd k... ...must be being whipped around quite a bit for that to happen Project Scope-Creep is live... Alcester Racing 7's Equipe - 🙆🏻™ Alcester-Racing-Sevens.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisb Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 On my dry-sumped crossflow, I was told to ensure that the engine was running (at tickover) and to ensure the oil was just "swashing" over the top baffle plate. I was told that the engine has to be running. If not there will be some leakage from the dry sump back into the engine, leading you to think there is less oil in there than there is. My understanding is that oil level isn't anywhere near as critical with a dry sump system, as the crank isn't spinning in a pool of oil, as it is with a standard sump. I stand to be corrected though........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy couchman Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 Thanks Chris. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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