pete g Posted April 16, 2005 Share Posted April 16, 2005 i have wide band lambda unit and mbe 976 ecu on xe engine how many of you have used the adaptive mapping . any tips thanks pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted April 16, 2005 Share Posted April 16, 2005 Erm, the SW hasn't been released by Emerald yet (AFAIK - just about to check. Again). DW said it would be released 'within days' - about a month ago... Project Scope-Creep is live... Alcester Racing 7's Equipe - 🙆🏻™ Alcester-Racing-Sevens.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted April 16, 2005 Share Posted April 16, 2005 Oh right. On the MBE. Well anyway, I'm waiting for the Emerald SW... Project Scope-Creep is live... Alcester Racing 7's Equipe - 🙆🏻™ Alcester-Racing-Sevens.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V7 SLR Posted April 16, 2005 Share Posted April 16, 2005 LOL... I had to read the initial post twice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted April 17, 2005 Share Posted April 17, 2005 Yeah that confused me also. Does the MBE read the sensor then ? Carbon Components from K9 Composites Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete g Posted April 17, 2005 Author Share Posted April 17, 2005 sorry whats the confusion. apart from its a mbe 967 ecu and not emerald unit. wide band unit innovative lm1 feeding signal to ecu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted April 17, 2005 Share Posted April 17, 2005 What version of the 967 config code supports adaptive mapping?? I can find an adaptive map in the code, but no means as to how it works or how to configure. This would be VERY useful for mapping cold satrt strategies if it does work..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete g Posted April 17, 2005 Author Share Posted April 17, 2005 its new to me , i thought you guys could help me. believe my ecu model nunber 967ba 520 may be a older version ,and may not support the innovative lambda sensor. i have had a quick try using other settings and it did start to make a map. but have not got enough knowlegde to carry on with it yet. ☹️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Locust Posted April 17, 2005 Share Posted April 17, 2005 MBE provide a piece of software called 'easimap' which is supposed to give self mapping of the ecu from a basic starting map by monitoring Lambda sensor output and adjusting the map on the fly. Can't remember whether a wideband lambda sensor was required or whether a standard one could be used - presumably if you have the better wideband sensor there shouldn't be too many issues. Not used it. Just looked at the demo version on their website and thought it would be a definite advantage over Emerald etc who do not currently offer this. I seem to recall EFI ecu's as used by Hellier appear to offer similar features/software. Ian Green and Silver Roadsport 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete g Posted April 17, 2005 Author Share Posted April 17, 2005 where did you see demo on there site Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Locust Posted April 17, 2005 Share Posted April 17, 2005 Slightly misled you earlier............but only a bit I made some enquiries to MBE when I was considering an aftermarket ecu some time ago and, whilst very helpful, MBE don't generally deal direct with individuals as they would with the likes of Caterham etc. However, they did answer some questions and direct me towards their agent SBD, who appear to be quite successful with VX engines fitted to Westfields. The easimap is downloadable from their website here. There is a working demo version to teach yourself how to use it and a full version to map your ecu by following the link on the website. Despite being regarded as tantamount to heresey by many on tech talk I was seriously looking at Emerald alternatives for a K-series as the EU3 engine installation is no longer plug and play with an Emerald. The idea of 'home mapping' appealed to me if only as a way to get the basic mapping done before refining specific aspects of the map on the rollers. I am led to believe there are some pretty successful sprinting Westfields out there competing with this system having never even had the car on a dyno Ian Green and Silver Roadsport 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete g Posted April 17, 2005 Author Share Posted April 17, 2005 i like the look of the new emerald unit, and software interface looks very user friendly. but got the mbe ecu for good price. just need to learn how to play with software. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Carmichael Posted April 17, 2005 Share Posted April 17, 2005 EFI definitely has this feature, but the CANBUS lead costs ~500 quid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted April 17, 2005 Share Posted April 17, 2005 In the MBE software, there is an adaptive fuel map which appears to be a 3d map - throttle pos vs Rpm vs adaptive fuel factor. AFF may well be driven off a lambda probe, but I am scep as to how this can be interpreted as "real time mapping" FWIW If I wwre Dave Andrews I think the last thing I would be doing as a commercial strategy would be introducing ECU's whihc self map. JM2P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Shurvinton Posted April 17, 2005 Share Posted April 17, 2005 Wrong Dave? Anyway, given that quality widebands give you log outputs of AFR vs RPM and TPS and that people are writing scripts to do the same with Emerald, its already happening. Auto spark tuning is still a little way off mind, but coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Corb Posted April 17, 2005 Share Posted April 17, 2005 I've been looking at mine not so long ago with this aim. In the Caterham MBE strategy file (or chipfile as its called in MBE speak) there are two types of lambda probe supported. One is the standard switching I think although its referred to as an LSE type which doesn't exist (I asked a Bosch cal engineer to check) the other is a "re-jigged LA3". The LA3 is a box of tricks made by ETAS and is the industry standard lambda meter (equivalent to Innovate). It has a variable voltage output which can be plugged into the lambda probe connection of the loom so the ECU can read wide range AFR. Once you've connect it you need to make sure that the lambda table in the ECU is correctly set up (volts in = AFR in appropriate scaling). Next you need to fill in the Target AFR vs speed and load map. At present it simply says 1 for a few low load sites near idle and then 2.55 everywhere else (null value in MBE speak). What you actually want it to say is 1 upto about 3/4 load (site11 out of 15 ) maybe and then getting gradually richer to say 0.95 (pretty much optimimum AFR) at full load (site 15). When the speed increase above 4500 you need to start running richer earlier and earlier. Also at the sites near peak power AFR will need to be richer still. This is to cool down the exhaust gas temperature to prevent melting the exhaust ports, ideally for this you should have a thermocouple inserted into the exhaust manifold as close to the head flange as possible and then map to a peak power figure of ~900°C (steady state not a quick blip up to VMax). Once your happy with the numbers you can then enable the adaptive mode from the pull down options and go for a drive. As you go along the ECU will adjust the fuelling (within a tolerance which you need to set) and log these values in the adaptions table. When your've finished you have the option to merge the adaptions with the main fuelling map and zero the adaptions table again... Okay so it sounds easy enough but I've not tried it yet. I need an old lambda sensor plug to make a connector for the ETAS...but in theory you should be able to flash any car with a basic map, have a fiddle at idle to get it roughly right (by frigging the global fuel multiplier value) and then drive off in adaptive mode and it should map itself... The other problem will be transient fuelling. I've noticed on my "b@stard" R400 that it runs rich everywhere. (I've tried setting the TPS on numerous occasions and it runs very sweetly in low speed traffic etc and doesnt bang too much so it cant be far off) anyway, if you run lambda 1(stoich AFR=14.5) rather than 0.9 (rich) then when you plant the throttle the ECU must be right there with the perfect shot of fuel to avoid a misfire. By running rich everywhere you dont have to worry about it so much as there's plenty of fuel haging around anyway. The transient fuelling calc on the MBE is a bit wierd and I need to have a play with it first... SBD offer to lend a kit which does all this ...dunno how much they charge??? Hope that helps BC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted April 17, 2005 Share Posted April 17, 2005 The transient fuelling calc on the MBE is a bit wierd and I need to have a play with it first... Bob - I did, then disabled it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Corb Posted April 17, 2005 Share Posted April 17, 2005 So how do you enrich during accels? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete g Posted April 17, 2005 Author Share Posted April 17, 2005 the innovative uses the lsu4 wide band sensor, i understand that it is the lseu setting that you use. set the scaling to 0v lambda 10 and 5v lambda 20 and enter value of 1 for load sites upto 6 and .75 for 6 upwards. im surprised not many people have done this considering the price of wide band sensors now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 Pete, Ive been using the adaptive mapping functions on a MBE967 and could help you get started. Basically you'll need to setup the maps for the lambda sensor/interface that your using. I use an innovate LM-1. There are sever maps and parameters within the MBE that are used to "define" the lambda sensor and how the MBE react to the lambda input; 1) lambda input Volts to site map (2Dmap) 2) lambda site map to lambda value (2D map) 3) load to Ri map (never found a use for this 3D map) 4) rate of correction (speed/load 3d map) 5) both ingegral and proportion correction factors.... again control rate of correction 6) short term correction limits (call trim) 7) long term correction limits (called adaptive) 8) max short term correction before long term correction kicks in 9) min temp for short term correction to start 10) min temp for long term correction to start plus a few more ... Rather than me try to provide a user guide here, just call/email me if you want some help etc. Personally, Ive only used the apadtive mapping for low/mid load sites. I would use a RR for WOT sites and then use logged lambda data to manually trim the fuel at WOT. Ive also used the LM-1 to help look at the Accel fueling. The LM-1 is actually fast enough to see the lean spikes you get with snap throttle etc. Not sure that Ive got it right yet, but your welcome to have a copy of the maps Im using or I could talk you through how the two maps/functions (Wall Wetting Gain & Accel Fuel) work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete g Posted April 18, 2005 Author Share Posted April 18, 2005 adam thankyou for that i will be having another play today weather permitting. i then may be in contact if thats ok regards pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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