captain chaos Posted October 20, 2001 Share Posted October 20, 2001 I am just about to convert my Vx from caterham dry sump to a std bellhousing with external oil tank. At the moment I am facing losing my extended footwell to make space for the tank. Now the moment of truth is near I am concerned that I will be losing the chance to take adult passengers for rides and making the car more difficult to sell should I decide to. I've seen Alex's installation but would like to keep my heater (tart..I know!). Any suggestions before I start drilling out the panels. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg Posted October 20, 2001 Share Posted October 20, 2001 captain, I've the same issues, although starting from a different standpoint. I've a short cockpit, Live axel, and my rev limiter does not like even medium journeys due to the lack of leg room. This makes touring impossible! So I want to fit an extended footwell. But I also want to tweak the engine and go for a drysump. One solution is to get a special tank made - that fits above the extended footwell, and goes down infront of the footwheel. This tank is quite expensive (300 quid). If anyone is interested we could get a bulk load made, which would hopefully be cheaper. Aparently Arnie's car has a tank infront of the footwell, but you need a custom exhaust made. Greg, Q 880 RAE (Green/Ali XF) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slipper man Posted October 20, 2001 Share Posted October 20, 2001 Why are you changing from the standard bell/tank housing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metal mickey Posted October 20, 2001 Share Posted October 20, 2001 I don't want this to be a blatant advert but I am willing to help. If you can supply the neccesary templates and threaded fittings I'll fabricate you a tank up in ally as a one off. Won't cost 300 quid if your'e willing to do the leg work. You can contact me on 0129883855. Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Wong1697456877 Posted October 20, 2001 Share Posted October 20, 2001 And I can vouch for the quality of Mike's work! Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain chaos Posted October 20, 2001 Author Share Posted October 20, 2001 Keith, I'm changing my clutch set-up and the new clutch will not fit inside the Caterham dry sump bellhousing. The hydraulic slaves also leak alot. Metal Mickey, Thanks for the offer...sounds good. I will call in a few days when I am in a position to take it forward.thumbsup.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul jacobs Posted October 20, 2001 Share Posted October 20, 2001 Just idly reading the postings, as you do, and thought that I'd mention that not only have I got a purpose made tank that fits in front of the extended footwell, but will need the exhaust modifying, but I've also got a spare extension, which came off a mid '90's chassis. They are both surplus to requirements, but might be of some use to someone, don't know what to value them at, but am open to suggestions. Any good to someone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg Posted October 20, 2001 Share Posted October 20, 2001 I'm interested in the extension. How made your tank ? Is the round at the top, and rectanglar at the bottom ? Greg, Q 880 RAE (Green/Ali XF) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul jacobs Posted October 20, 2001 Share Posted October 20, 2001 Greg, I assume you meant to say, who made the tank? It was made to my spec. by a local ali. welder, it is rectangular top and bottom [and in the middle too:-)] and sits on the chassis. I used some self tapping screws to hold it in place, although there isn't much room for it to move, but you've always got to assume the worst, and the worst I could think of was inversion! I used it on my SBD Vx 7 originally, then more recently in my 21, and never had any probs. with it, but have now gone for a round tank because it fits perfectly into the air filter housing in the 21 - long story etc. Any idea what the footwell extension would be worth to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain chaos Posted October 20, 2001 Author Share Posted October 20, 2001 Paul, As I am trying to solve the problem obviously I would be interested in this tank of yours. can you mail me some pics and dimensions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted October 20, 2001 Share Posted October 20, 2001 Brise Fabrications in Crayford (very nr the Caterham factory) made my DS tank. I think that if you get #4 primary re made longer and routed differently, you should be able to fit it all in and not lose your footwell extension. Pri # 4 is already the most out of balance pipe of the four in the VX systems (JPE, race abd road!) so no real loss! Or you could get a mnaifold the same as mine made by Hayward & Scott - If they copy mine they could do it for around £700 and an instant power and torque improvement...... Gary, I've emailed you the drawing and dimensions of my tank for reference. Take off your exhaust headers (if you got as far as refitting them) and make up someting same shape and size. Brise canmake a bracket which places the tank approx 10-15mm ahead of the actual footwell. This gives adequate venting to prevent passenger feet frying. Fat Arn The NOW PROVEN R500 Eaterid=red> See the Lotus Seven Club 4 Counties Area Website hereid=green> Edited by - Fat Arnie on 20 Oct 2001 20:32:07 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain chaos Posted October 20, 2001 Author Share Posted October 20, 2001 Thanks Arnie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain chaos Posted October 20, 2001 Author Share Posted October 20, 2001 Would a tank that sits ontop of the footwell and folds over the front but above the headers work? It could have an internal shelf to tip the oil forward. I'm not that technical..it's just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Wong1697456877 Posted October 20, 2001 Share Posted October 20, 2001 Again, Brise can make this for you (one that does not need the manifold mods). There is a pic in an old copy of LF though I can't remember when from. Search Brise in tech talk and you should find the answer. I asked these questions a year ago when I did mine. Your other option is to go for a single plate clutch which will fit in the Caterham tank/bell housing. Roger Swift and Alan Clark went down this route and I don't think Roger's had any trouble with it at all. Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain chaos Posted October 20, 2001 Author Share Posted October 20, 2001 Alex, I've shelled out on the clutch and bellhousing so you could say that i'm committed to running (your) the QM clutch. It's just that if I could keep the footwell it would be a big bonus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain chaos Posted October 20, 2001 Author Share Posted October 20, 2001 Alex, I've searched the archive as you suggested. Very interesting. Did you finally decide against the Brise tank because of price, the plumbing or delivery period? Was the tank originally designed for x/flow or Vx? My copies of LF do not go back far enough. Thanks Greg, Are you interested in buying one aswell, the more the merrier! Edited by - captain chaos on 21 Oct 2001 00:08:37 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg Posted October 21, 2001 Share Posted October 21, 2001 I was going to get a Brise tank, as they've already made a few and hence it should "just work". Thier design is also quite good - large circular area with tangenical input (so that oil enters at speed - to spin out air) a wier to further reduce bubbling. Making the tank splitable for cleaning would be good - along with a drain plug / bolt for oil changes and you have an ideal design - I think ! I've no idea which engine the brise tank was for, but it should make little difference - a tank's a tank. If we can come to a comparable tank as the brise one - then I am interested - if it had the mods above then even better. Greg, Q 880 RAE (Green/Ali XF) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted October 21, 2001 Share Posted October 21, 2001 Greg, The drain plug is a good idea! I drain my system by removing the pump belt and spinning the pump with an elec. drill, with the rtn pipe to the tank connected to a waste oil container. Evacuates the system pretty much 100%. The split for cleaning makes the tank difficult to secure and the clamps tend to twist the tank and cause it to leak. Best way to clean the tabk is to remove it a swill it out with petrol. Be sure all the petrols out before refitting!!!! (Fortunately it evapourates pretty quickly! Gary, The original split tank (which I think Alex uses albeit heavily modified) was originally designed for the Xflow. It is too greater dia to fit in front of the extended footwell. As Greg also states, the shape and the position of the return inlet are also critical to reduce cavitation/aeriation. Fat Arn The NOW PROVEN R500 Eaterid=red> See the Lotus Seven Club 4 Counties Area Website hereid=green> Edited by - Fat Arnie on 21 Oct 2001 10:15:16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Wong1697456877 Posted October 21, 2001 Share Posted October 21, 2001 Mine's just a boggo cylindrical tank which cost £80 from QED. Metal Mickey modified it by adding a breather return and a square plate half way down it. It just fits between the tunnel tubes, between the footwells, where the heater used to be. This is in a 1997 chassis. Don't know who actually made the tank. For those who haven't seen it, here's some pics pic 1 pic 2 pic 3 Alex Edited by - Alex Wong on 21 Oct 2001 11:20:26 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg Posted October 21, 2001 Share Posted October 21, 2001 Arnie, Thanks for the pointers. I would not be able to spin the pump as its drive driven, not belt driven on an Xflow. I'd have to get a cheap pump, pipes etc ... A drain plug seems much easier. My latest "plan" Is for two cylinders, one large, but shallow(ish) one for above the foot well - this would have the tangenical input, breather and filler cap (with filler cap over the inlet so you can see oil getting back in the tank). This would be the seperation / anti cavitation area. Another smaller, deeper cylinder could be then attached to the edge. This cylinder would fit front of the footwheel and have the outlet and drain plug. This would be the actual tank. The Top cylinders bottom - where it fits over the smaller cylinder could be drilled with small holes to act as a whier. What do people think ? Where could I get the fittings for this ? Metal Mickey, is this easy ? captain chaos, what do you think ? Greg, Q 880 RAE (Green/Ali XF) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain chaos Posted October 21, 2001 Author Share Posted October 21, 2001 Greg, this sounds exactly what I could do with but I would be interested in feedback from Arnie & Alex on issues such as aeration and surge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain chaos Posted October 21, 2001 Author Share Posted October 21, 2001 Another related issue is; Why are the external tanks so big when my integral tank looks as though it only contains about 1 or 2 litres of oil? If it is something to do with the capacity of the sump (mine's a Caterham) could I run a smaller tank? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metal mickey Posted October 21, 2001 Share Posted October 21, 2001 All sounds O.K. You can get the threaded unions/filler neck and cap from Tweeks I think. I would suggest placing the filler to view the internal wier as well as the oil supply. You could then check this area is clean when oil changing. The top tank being round is a good idea to act as a swirl pot, the bottom one could be any shape to fit the space available. The simpler the better (and cheaper to produce). Possibly a rectangular lower tank would give more clearance from the exhaust. Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain chaos Posted October 21, 2001 Author Share Posted October 21, 2001 Greg, In the meantime, how about a quick sketch of your idea which you could e-mail to me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg Posted October 22, 2001 Share Posted October 22, 2001 A quick sketch .... well two really (about 20k each): http://212.135.202.194/caterham/sideview.jpeg http://212.135.202.194/caterham/topview.jpeg This is a ripoff from the Brice tank article in Low flying - which I tried to copy, but because mine is a copy of a copy it comes out rubbish. They have a rectangular lower tank (one side angled due to the chassis rails). This seems like a good idea as it increases volume over a cylinder. I've added the breather location, and drain plug location as the orginal pictures do not seem to show this (well there are two pipes that could be for the rocker cover and crankcase breathers.) But they look like a naff place to me(just opposite the input) A tank like this apparently holds 9 litres of oil. The top tank is apparently a nearly half a standard tank (for an Xlow ?) - so however wide they are. And about as deep as they are wide (6"x6" ish) Judging by scale the lower tank is about 6" wide (at rear - probably 5" at front due to angular side) x 6" long x 8" deep. I would appreciate an comments on the idea / design (which I repeat is not mine, but a copy of the brise ones in a Low Flying July 1997. Captain caos, what do you think - do you want me to email a copy Metal Mickey - is this easy to make ? Greg, Q 880 RAE (Green/Ali XF) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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