RiF Posted April 6, 2005 Share Posted April 6, 2005 I know there has been many postings re a carbon prop shaft before but is anyone actually making one or near to getting one made????? Reason is I spoke to a company this week that makes them for a racing team and reckons that they can purpose make what ever we want for a very reasonable price 😬 The sample I saw was a nice piece of kit and the guy seemed to know what he was talking about. As they are a foriegn company not involved in the usual big UK motorsport scene I think he could do a good job at a reasonable rate. I want one now I have seen the demo one 😬 Need to know a full spec to give them???? Can anyone help me please???? Length (total), Diameter Size of splin shaft and type or number of spins Size of flange to diff, What spec the shaft should be designed to??? Anything else???? Thanks Richard in France Flying fast in my very bright yellow 226bhp Duratec 7, with internal kevlar/carbon panels and pushrod suspension 😬 😬 😬.for pictures of 7 and carbon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted April 6, 2005 Share Posted April 6, 2005 Just make sure that they have at least £10 million pound product liability insurance, cos i would not want a failure like i had in carbon fibre. I enjoy walking 😬 Carbon Components from K9 Composites Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red SLR Posted April 6, 2005 Share Posted April 6, 2005 I would be interested in it if it was not too expensive. LeMans 2004 pics here FREE SEVEN CHAThere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Bees Posted April 6, 2005 Share Posted April 6, 2005 MOG racing have them on their website now. 1079 Euros, 2.25kg. I reckon a flailing carbon prop will do a lot less damage than a flailing steel one. Or rather, a lot more damage to itself and a lot less damage to what's around it. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted April 6, 2005 Share Posted April 6, 2005 I would not agree with you there Mike, as a steel version tends to absorb the energy in the event of a failure, it tends to stay in one piece, and therefore no fragmentation occurs which limits the damage to one area only abiet so being high energy. A carbon version would indeed fragment in failure, causing small energy release but in large numbers, this could increase the area of damage compared to a localised impact of the steel version. Carbon Components from K9 Composites Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted April 6, 2005 Share Posted April 6, 2005 Mmm - then again, you'd hope your steel one *doesn't* flail... 😳 Project Scope-Creep is underway... Alcester Racing 7's Equipe - 🙆🏻™ Alcester-Racing-Sevens.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Corb Posted April 6, 2005 Share Posted April 6, 2005 The place in Banbury is very reasoanble I've heard. If you supply suitable ends their machine can weave the carbon matrix around them. When they fail they literally vapourise. A friend has experimented with building his own carbon prop and has built a rig to test them, he will be getting his prop custom made now by this company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted April 6, 2005 Share Posted April 6, 2005 Carbon versions are designed to be replaced every season, road going versions are a mix of carbon and an alloy, that way they can be reliable for road use. Carbon Components from K9 Composites Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Bees Posted April 6, 2005 Share Posted April 6, 2005 I'm thinking about the failure mode where a substantial piece of the prop stays attached to the diff and flails around under the energy of the moving vehicle - it'll soon smash it's way through the tunnel sides and into the driver. A piece of carbon will disintegrate very quickly into small pieces which are very unlikely to piece the aluminium skin. It's kind of the reverse of what you want to happen to bodywork in a crash - so for me it'd be metal bodywork, carbon spinny things. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted April 6, 2005 Share Posted April 6, 2005 Shards of wafer thin carbon fibre need a lot less energy to pierce thin ally skin than a blunt ended hunk ok steel. Carbon Components from K9 Composites Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonbell Posted April 6, 2005 Share Posted April 6, 2005 A crabon prop thread and no sign of V7........ Well I consider a big steel prop and my carbon fibre tunnel sides to be a pretty risky setup in the event of a failure...........but hey risk is the spice of life 😬 I`m interested in this but would want to find out a bit more about the pros and cons.......particularly reliability and longevity........I don`t want to have to replace it every year. Also cost would be a major issue. While I accept that a certain cost needs to be paid for a tested and reliable product I have plenty of other ways to spend money on the se7en........like more horses 😬 Simon Bell - Caterham 7 Duratec R I`ve seen the future.....and it`s powered by duratec Check out the website here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonbell Posted April 6, 2005 Share Posted April 6, 2005 PS Any pictures Richard...........oh and I didn`t get that template made as I spent most of the day fitting the CF back panel.........or should I say I spent most of the day plucking up the courage to fit the CF back panel Simon Bell - Caterham 7 Duratec R I`ve seen the future.....and it`s powered by duratec Check out the website here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Bees Posted April 6, 2005 Share Posted April 6, 2005 But how much kinetic energy does a shard of carbon fibre store compared to a hunk of steel? Anyway, time to leave this alone I think for the sake of the thread. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted April 6, 2005 Share Posted April 6, 2005 Yes, good idea as i am going home now. Carbon Components from K9 Composites Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bare Posted April 6, 2005 Share Posted April 6, 2005 Errrrr.. since when is it the actual steel tube that fails?? Whithout a blown Alcohol Fueler engine as fitted to a Drag car? Traditionally it's the poor overworked, unlubed and loose bolted UJ's that let go. High spec materials can do little against Sloth. Seems a lot of Time and $$ to re-invent the driveshaft .. when a few less beers inna Belly would acomplish similar weight savings :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seamus Posted April 6, 2005 Share Posted April 6, 2005 I wonder if the carbon prop shafts have the same issue as carbon bike frames - normally any kind of scratches or dents and it's stuffed. And not repairable I think. I guess the carbon prop must have a metal protective cover? Another point is I'm sure carbon prop shafts must have less torsional strength than steel ones. I'm not sure if that's a good or bad thing - I guess it could damp to some degree whiplash in the drive train? And they probably need balancing also..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shn7 Posted April 6, 2005 Share Posted April 6, 2005 Bare, I think the gain is not simply overall weight but in the reduced rotation inertia of the lighter item. Same as having lighter wheels/tyres/flywheel... Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted April 6, 2005 Share Posted April 6, 2005 Yeah, but who wants an aluminuim flywheel when your engine revs to 9400 RPM, not me. I would rather it be steel thanks, if some parts could be made using lighter materials then F1 cars would use it, but i cannot find any F1 cars with a carbon propshaft. Carbon Components from K9 Composites Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Bees Posted April 6, 2005 Share Posted April 6, 2005 Have you found any F1 cars with a propshaft 😬 Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted April 6, 2005 Share Posted April 6, 2005 No, not really, but neither driveshafts 😬 Carbon Components from K9 Composites Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted April 6, 2005 Share Posted April 6, 2005 I think the gain is not simply overall weight but in the reduced rotation inertia of the lighter item. Hmm - I know it all counts, and (once upon a time) I could (have) do the maths - but are you really going to notice much of a change from such a small diameter item? Flywheels, tyres etc. can make a big difference because they have a lot of mass a long way from the axis of rotation - but a propshaft? Last few percent if you've optimised everything else, I'd guess... Project Scope-Creep is underway... Alcester Racing 7's Equipe - 🙆🏻™ Alcester-Racing-Sevens.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shn7 Posted April 6, 2005 Share Posted April 6, 2005 Myles, I entirely agree but it's not me that's considering buying one. And perhaps V7 hasn't been along 'cos the bling value is too low with it being hidden under the car 😬. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted April 6, 2005 Share Posted April 6, 2005 If you are going to reduce the small rotating mass of the prop, then you should also consider the driveshafts, also the crown wheel in the diff to make any noticible gains surely. 🤔 Carbon Components from K9 Composites Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Ranson Posted April 6, 2005 Share Posted April 6, 2005 The crownwheel and driveshafts are turning more slowly than the prop... I think Caterham driveshafts are way over-specced so there's some opportunity for weight loss there. Perhaps simple gun drilling for starters. Of course you don't get to see the rather good looking results once fitted. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Bees Posted April 6, 2005 Share Posted April 6, 2005 There's a suprising amount (well maybe not surprising if you do the maths) of energy stored in a driveshaft. I've stood near a number of balancing machines (praying that the software doesn't go wrong ) while they're spinning a propshaft at 3000rpm. If it's left to spin down without any braking it spins for a *long* time. If anything goes wrong people run in all directions (or more accurately in any direction which takes them behind something solid). Not as significant as the crankshaft though! Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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