Ozzy Posted April 6, 2005 Share Posted April 6, 2005 A couple of weeks ago I dropped the sump and changed the foam/oil/filter etc. However, from reading some stuff on here, it would appear that I should have drained the apollo separately, as this can contain 1/2 a litre. I don't know which grade was in before, but it was re-filled with 15w50 fully synthetic. Is this something I should worry about??????? Don't really want to have to drain it again! Oz. Still Shaking. 6 speed 1600k Supersport (keep forgetting to tell people what it is!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Day Posted April 6, 2005 Share Posted April 6, 2005 Don't worry, when you take the filter off the Apollo tank drains leaving a small amount behind. People get a bit hang up about this; the important thing is that you've put good quality clean oil back in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted April 6, 2005 Share Posted April 6, 2005 Erm, yeah - I get a bit hung up about it There is in excess of half a litre of oil in there - I've measured it (or tried to - it overflows my pint measuring jug...) It *doesn't* drain into the sump/through the filter with any speed. I wouldn't worry about it this time in terms of mixing - but it *is* a good idea to get it 'right' next time. Project Scope-Creep is underway... Alcester Racing 7's Equipe - 🙆🏻™ Alcester-Racing-Sevens.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheds Moderator Posted April 6, 2005 Share Posted April 6, 2005 Mmm, I wouldn't get too excited about it. There are worse things in life than a bit of "used" oil mixed with the fresh. Change intervals are very short on 7s anyway, and we all use high quality stuff. The Apollo tank isn't the only place you get a bit of oil hanging around after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted April 6, 2005 Share Posted April 6, 2005 Drain all the oil and start again as this will put your mind at rest and at the same time you could put in a ?w/40 grade fully synthetic and regain some power and protection. The question you asked is will oil mix and yes it should, but why pay for the good stuff and then mix it with an unknown quantity? Reading with interest some of the comments on oil from the uneducated on other postings, why take advice from non experts. If in doubt contact OIL MAN, he advertises in the back of LOW FLYING. The oils job is to pick up soot etc and hold it in suspension and the oil left in at present will not be clean and you will be adding this to the new. X/FLOW 1700 DD 1990 ROAD USE ONLY..SO FAR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted April 6, 2005 Author Share Posted April 6, 2005 H'mm. One say's should'nt be a problem, one say's change it again. What do you do?? A lot more oil did come out when the filter was removed, and it was left to drain for 1/2 hour. Also, what does Phil mean regain power and protection?? The oil I used was recommended by a man who knows more than most about K series engines!!! Please explain yourself. Oz. Still Shaking. 6 speed 1600k Supersport (keep forgetting to tell people what it is!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted April 6, 2005 Share Posted April 6, 2005 It's up to you and your paranoia level... Most people don't drop the sump every time - so they will always have a quantity of used oil left in the system. This isn't ideal, but isn't a big problem if you change your oil as often as most 7 owners - i.e. every 3-5k miles or so. There will *always* be a quantity of used oil in the head/oilways - so no-one gets a completely clean start after a change. Personally (despite being of the 'drain it well' brigade), I'd leave it as-is and just plan for a big-change slightly earlier next time. At the end of the day, you're taking much more care of the engine than tintop drivers - and although you probably rev higher, harder and for longer, you'll still be in good shape. It is *your* engine and peace of mind though. Project Scope-Creep is underway... Alcester Racing 7's Equipe - 🙆🏻™ Alcester-Racing-Sevens.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted April 6, 2005 Share Posted April 6, 2005 A 50 grade is a little to high for a K. A 40 grade would be easier to push around the engine and will not waste as much power doing so, a 40 grade will give you a strong film strength an is perfect for a k. For the cold reading ie the first grade, you could use a 0w or a 5w or a 10w but a 15w I would not recomend. A 10w/40 fully synthetic would be ideal. The smaller the amount between the the two numbers means that the oil will perform better and hold its grade longer As less is added to the blend of oil to get it to perform better so as a result there is less to go wrong [it brakes down slower] A 10w will flow better and get around the engine quicker giving good cold start protection compared to a 15w. Please do not confuse high oil presure with good protection, it is a balance between the two. Please forget advertising on the front of cans like RACE and HYPERGRADE etc X/FLOW 1700 DD 1990 ROAD USE ONLY..SO FAR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TorAtle Posted April 6, 2005 Share Posted April 6, 2005 A 50 grade is a little to high for a K Minister recommend 5W50 - 15W50. I would not worry about a little old oil left in the engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted April 6, 2005 Share Posted April 6, 2005 OK then, find out what if any advantage a 15w has over a 0w/5w/or a 10w and get back to me. Also find out what the difference between a race car with engine oil change every race and a road car. Find out what oil was in mind when they designed the K or what oil is used as standard, [mgf for exapmle]. Ford state a 10w/30 for a Duratec, why? Which has the greater film strength when hot, a /40 or a /50 Which is the faster moving oil, lower viscosity rating when at full running tempreture. TorAtle, why would you choose a 10w over a 0w for your car please. X/FLOW 1700 DD 1990 ROAD USE ONLY..SO FAR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted April 6, 2005 Author Share Posted April 6, 2005 Guy's, Have I started a little ding dong here????????? Perhaps an engine specialist or oil company tech would like to comment, and enlighten us all!!! Oz. (currently ducking low flying objects!) Still Shaking. 6 speed 1600k Supersport (keep forgetting to tell people what it is!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted April 6, 2005 Share Posted April 6, 2005 Ozzy, do not want it to be a bit of a "DING DONG" as you put it, that is why I suggested you contact Oil Man as he too sells oil but he maybe known to you all and you may take his word over mine as you do not know me, no offence ment to anyone. X/FLOW 1700 DD 1990 ROAD USE ONLY..SO FAR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordy Posted April 6, 2005 Share Posted April 6, 2005 correction, Ford state 5W-30 for the Duratec.........of a specific Ford spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordy Posted April 6, 2005 Share Posted April 6, 2005 viscosity tells you how thick an oil is. Specification tells you how good an oil is. Branding is just a matter of faith 😳 Everyone ignores specs though. Which is sad because that makes my life a bit of a waste of time. Interested? read this http://www.acea.be/ASB/Download.nsf/Category1Language3Files/F5167E6B75D68AF5C1256F4600263CD9/$File/ACEA2004%20oil%20sequences-DEF.pdf Edited by - fordy on 6 Apr 2005 19:00:47 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted April 6, 2005 Share Posted April 6, 2005 Cheers Fordy, some of the application books I have list a 10w/30 but I could not remember if it was correct, I would recomend the 5w/30 semi over the 10w/30 anyday. X/FLOW 1700 DD 1990 ROAD USE ONLY..SO FAR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordy Posted April 6, 2005 Share Posted April 6, 2005 can't get that url working Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TorAtle Posted April 6, 2005 Share Posted April 6, 2005 Phil, they were Minister's recommendations, not mine. I would think that cold start properties (ie 5,10,15) is not that important to race-ish engines, so they left that part rather open. Also I would think that if Rover say 40 for the K-series for normal road usage then 50 would be more suitable for hard track work when oil gets hotter. As for your last question, I wouldn't. But 5W50 is easier to get hold of than 0W50...in fact, I can't remember ever seeing one. I think what Minister is saying is that they would prefer 5W50 over 0W40. Sounds ok to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted April 6, 2005 Share Posted April 6, 2005 Take 20w/50, the 20 is thick as you call it, it is slow moving because of all the excess baggage it has as in inpurities, it has a low friction rate and does not slide past itself very well, it gives you great oil pressure but crap lubrication. A 0w/50, the 0w is pure and clean, very low friction, great film strength,lubrication, start up protection but less pressure. The hot readings ie the 40 or 50 relates to the thickness viscosity at 100 degre plus. A 50 maybe higher/thicker but it is harder to push round the engine taking valuable power and this maybe less effective at dissipating heat, a 40 grade on the other hand will perform better, faster moving, easier to move and better removal of heat and as demonstrated some engines are designed to work with certain oils like the Ford with a 30 grade when hot. You pay loads of money to get these quality oils to perform well and look after your engines so why not do the job properly, in this case the oil left in is of unknown origins so why not drain ALL of it and start again. X/FLOW 1700 DD 1990 ROAD USE ONLY..SO FAR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted April 6, 2005 Share Posted April 6, 2005 To make an oil perform over a greater range [0w/50] it will need help, the help provided does not always help an oil to last the distance ie full service interval. If an oil has a shorter range to cover [15w/50] it may not need these extra helpers and as a result there is less to go wrong [brake down/burn off/leave deposits] so the oil stays together longer, better protection through the full service interval. As you have said it is not always easy to buy the oil you want, try finding a true fully synthetic 10w/40, this is where the help of OIL MAN comes in as he sells it. As said by FORDY, read the specs. Get the correct grade and ignor the advertising and do not be tight with the money over something so important. You buy new oil because it is new so why mix it with the old already broken down dirty stuff? X/FLOW 1700 DD 1990 ROAD USE ONLY..SO FAR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted April 6, 2005 Author Share Posted April 6, 2005 Actually guy's, The existing oil is not of unknown origin, it was put in by CC at the 12k interval 3,523 miles ago. I just don't know for certain which grade they used. Oz. Still Shaking. 6 speed 1600k Supersport (keep forgetting to tell people what it is!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted April 6, 2005 Share Posted April 6, 2005 Ozzy, good luck with what ever you decide. X/FLOW 1700 DD 1990 ROAD USE ONLY..SO FAR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeW Posted April 6, 2005 Share Posted April 6, 2005 ozzy I really wouldn't be too concerned-not an oil expert just drive mine hard most of the time and change the oil regularly ( but don't drain the apollo seperately) The best way to protect your engine is don't use it-but where's the fun in that 😬 If I was really worried about engine wear-and I'm not I wouldn't be driving round a track with only an apollo- I'd have a dry sump fitted MikeW Mega Grad Race No 22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim_H Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 Phil, - Hijak. Please tell me what oil you use in YOUR Xflow, as I'm interested to know (seriously) for mine. This is a subject I was really passionate about for my Sierra, and want to continue with my 7. As it really can mean a longer engine life, etc. I can't get a good answer what to use. (Caterham said not synthetic, and were quite blase really) Cost no object. Thanks Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puremalt Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 Oh christ how big is this can of worms... Have a hunt in FAQ, the last mega-oil thread went on for about 15 pages. BTW I use semi synth 10W 40 in my X Flow. I expect to be bombarded with people telling me it's wrong now! 😬 This one goes up to 11 Edited by - puremalt on 7 Apr 2005 10:10:34 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 Puremalt, stay with the 10w/40 semi or a 10w/40 fully if you can get it [try oil man] Our engines may be of old design but they are made with modern materials with better engineering and modern oil seals, do not be fooled into putting old style oils in your car. Your OHC [sierra] engine needs a 10w/40 as it again is a modern take on an old engine and does not suffer the cheap oils as well, the main reason is that it has a thin oil bar running across the top of the engine direct onto the cam and if this gets blocked or resticted it causes a lot of noise and wear, people then assume it needs a thicker oil, wrong. Tim_H, what grade did they recomend in a mineral base please. X/FLOW 1700 DD 1990 ROAD USE ONLY..SO FAR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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