ian crocker Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 OK, not wanting to restart the debate in the ACB10 thread, but I do have a question related to that thread. No Limits stated that A24 ACB10s were'nearly 2 seconds a lap' faster than medium A048s. He then went on to say the choice from best to worst was: "ACB10 - A24 compound Yokohama 032's - Supersoft (Not available any more but some will be running them) Yokohama 048's - Soft (due out anytime now to replace 032's above) Avon CR500's - wet tyre option and probably better than the 48's below. Yokohama 048's - Medium (available now but take 2 laps to get anywhere near warm and I would not advise use for sprints unless nothing else available or you simply need one tyre for many purposes- Good when warm on a track day though)" Given that A048 medium is at the bottom of this list, any idea what the difference between A24 ACB10 and Ao32R SS is likely to be - presumably quite small? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david nelson Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 Ian my understanding is that Dave Jackson used 32s last year and if he tested acb 10 on saterday and no limits says there 2 sec quicker that the diffrence between 32s ss and a24 ACB10s. I have no hard facts but would think tere is not a lot of diffrence between cr500 and 48s. With the new softer 48s they should have the edge and are cheeper. Hope this helps David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoLimits Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 That was the difference between ACb's and Yoko 032 ss All by the same driver. Not me. MY 51VEN - R400 Give it some WELLY! Only if you have the ride height! New sump guard being manufactured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Durrant Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 Simon Was that back to back testing on the Saturday 🤔 Mark D Su77on Se7ens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irrelevant Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 Is A24 as soft as you can get in ACB10s? Getting there.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Wong1697456877 Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 A33 Stronger for very hard saloon use A31 Durable compound mostly used on saloon cars A30 Generates higher temperature and grip than A31 A24 Used in medium single seater/soft saloon applications A24 is the softest - If I do two runs back to back with these (double lap curborough) you can feel them starting to overheat - by the third run, they are definitely overheating. Avons do not seem to like heat cycles. You can have plenty of tread left on them but once they've been through a few heat cycles, they do go off. The fastest I've gone has always been on brand new A24 ACB10's but you almost need to buy a new set every year and not use them for practice either, in order to get the best out of them. It gets quite silly so I'm going to use my 2 year old ones this year, knowing they're not nearly as good as they were when new - it is an excuse but in all honesty, new ones are better They're also suprisingly good in damp situations, as long as there's no standing water. Edited by - Alex Wong on 23 Mar 2005 09:35:44 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoLimits Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 Yep back to back. And not really trying on ACB's - Only one flying lap after heat cycles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian crocker Posted March 23, 2005 Author Share Posted March 23, 2005 Thanks No Limits. A truly staggering gap! One more question. Was the car re-aligned between runs so that it had the correct suspension settings for both sets of tyres? If not, was it on 'crossply' or 'radial' alignment. Cheers, Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delberts Wallet Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 The other question is why was Dave timing his car round Llandow. Didn't think timing was allowed at trackdays Gareth Blue and Carbon 6 Speed Supersport with new wheels Edited by - Gareth Harrold on 23 Mar 2005 15:20:26 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Perry Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 Dave probably wasn't. Perhaps a few casual observers were, from the pits. Two seconds is a big difference though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoLimits Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 Correct camber for both tyre types. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 I've been on a boring training course all day ........ I had my old 32R's in SS compound . We timed those then changed the front camber , and put the A24 ACB's on . These were then heat cycled . Then we timed one flying lap . It was *just* under 2 seconds quicker . I felt the laps were fairly comparative , but I had adjusted the dampers during the course of the day , so a few more tenths may have been had on the 32R's ??. However , the rear ears were still on 1.5Deg neg camber - so these need to be changed . Plus the tracking was all to cock as it changed when I altered the camber . In essence , i reckon the A24's to be about 1.75sec > 2 sec quicker round Llandow than my *old* 32R's . If the 32R's were also fresh I reckon they would be worth 0.3 sec . So i conclude that a24's are worth about 1.6- 1.8 sec around Llandow vs fresh 32rs in SS. The most telling point with the a24's was that I could apply full throttle in second gear out of the bustop without any wheelspin at all . Also I could hold 4th gear around gluepot corner and exit on full throttle without any wheelspin . With the 32R's , I was on full oppo lock in 4th at 7000 rpm out of gluepot and in second gear only 1/2 throttle could only ever be applied . Braking was also much better with loads of front wheel grip . I was quite staggered at the difference and now realise exactly what time difference I have been simply throwing away for the past 3 years that I have been resolutly competing on 32R's despite what others in class 5 have run 😬 *thumbup* . Dave C7 TOP Powered by Hellier Performance 😬 South Wales AO Edited by - Dave Jackson on 23 Mar 2005 19:03:52 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 Downside is I reckon they will only last 3 events on the rear wheels Edited by - Dave Jackson on 25 Mar 2005 08:28:33 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 Additional info ........ The tracking turns out to be waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay out ( I knew it would be less than optimal , but this was silly ) having changed the camber for the ACB's from 32R's at Llandow . This has since been corrected so maybe some more time can be had Dave C7 TOP Powered by Hellier Performance 😬 South Wales AO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelspeed Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 > A24 is the softest Just to really put the cat amongst the pigeons.... Avon are on the record as saying they can make ACB's in any compund you like. A40 compound ACB10's anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Bees Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 This makes a bit of a mockery of having an approved (MSA regs) list doesn't it - surely the compound should be part of the approved specification. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irrelevant Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 Chelspeed: I was going to throw that cat in amongst the pigeons a couple of days ago but decided against it - just incase I ever wanted to do class 3 or 5 on A40 ACB10s......... Getting there.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 Exactly this is why I hate ACB's I dont think a compoun softer than A24 would last 1 & 3/4 laps of Llandow ? I'm already considering doing practice on the A31 compound or the CR500's is its wet or the 32R's if its damp 😬 😬 😬 😬 😬 😬 (joke!) C7 TOP Powered by Hellier Performance 😬 South Wales AO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawrence_Z Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 there's always going to be something new coming on track imagine a road registered race CSR with these on........ Lawrence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Bees Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 Already looked at these Lawrence - they're not in List 1B If a rule/class/regulation encourages people to use a wheel/tyre combo which they *only* use for competition purposes (i.e. they change to different wheels/tyres for the road) then it seems to me that what's needed is a class for cars which are fully road-legal in all respects other than tyres - that way you don't have any lists to worry about and nor any illegal-tread-depth issues. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmar Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 Mike - i have suggested that on a number of occasions have a class 3b/5b for anyone running compund 24 acb's AND SS 32's/48's rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver 21 Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 Rob A bit of a nightmare to manage and scrutineer, that would make 8 classes, why not put anyone on A24's into Class 6 with the slick boys, that would sort them out 😬 😬 😬 Graham Competition Secretary 2005 Speed Championship - 13 Rounds with 7 counting towards the championship Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmar Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 BB - yep I am sure that is is far easy to suggest than implement 😬 class 6 - err no thanks ☹️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawrence_Z Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 Excellent suggestion Graham I agree totally as I think many more will Afterall is said and done surely only the fastest car of the day is the real winner, why should there be any sub classes for losers anyway? This whole class attitude thang is probably the cause of many of the same old arguments, Classes can never be fair to everyone so get rid of them. Just think No Classes therefore No Problems and then everyone can happily spend as much or as little as they want, and then happily race against the others that are setting similar times in the knowledge that they are doing their level best on the budget they have. If there is a vote for next years regs, then put me down for "No classes at all" thanks Lawrence Sofa So Good Edited by - Lawrence_Z on 31 Mar 2005 18:09:29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 Bloody good idea Graham *thumbup* *thumbup* *thumbup* *thumbup* I'm off to buy some A40* compound ACB's so I can stay in class 5 with "laughing boy" Lawrence * for those of you who actually have a life and dont know the Avon tyre compound chart off the top of your head , the A40 compound is like chewing gum , much softer than A24 which by the sounds of it Graham BB is banning as of 2006 for being too hard 😬 C7 TOP Powered by Hellier Performance 😬 South Wales AO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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