KDEANO Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 I have a 1700 xflow LA car and am curious as to how much it costs to transplant a good bike engine (e.g. blade). I am hopeless with the spanners so would need a specialist to sort it but have always been excited at the thought of a screaming bike engine with sequential gearbox. The car would be primarily for the track. Has anybody done this recently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caligarinet Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 fyi in the for sale section can't help with overall cost, as mine was bought with Bike engine already installed. however can definately give a to the idea. go for it. Kawasaki ZX12R Powered Caterham 7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanB Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 If you're looking to have the whole thing professionally done then for a blade you'd be looking at about £3-4k, £5k tops. More expensive engines and the need for a dry sump (you don't need one on a blade) would push the price up. HTH Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrino Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 I'm currently converting my '89 LA to R1 power, although I'm putting it together myself, so I don't know much about installation costs. I'm rebuilding the car at the same time (blast/reskin/lightweight bits etc...), so it's difficult to give a cost for the engine conversion alone. The Fireblade installation kit on offer in the For Sale section looks like a very good option though, and would decrease the costs for bespoke mounts and exhaust. Got the guitar, got the keyboard - now got the engine 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmar Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 probably a good idea to talk to Graham Lyall (aka Bacon Butty) as he is in the process of butting a bird engine in his 1700 live axle car however he is doing it himself rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheds Moderator Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 Noger is putting a GSXR 11 in his car. He is using a pro. I think costs vary between 3 and 5k depending what you want/other work. STM (Stuart Taylor MSport) near Nottingham are able to do the work, I think they are doing Noger's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet Elizabeth Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 They certainly did do Nogers, and now Chris @ the 7 workshop is making it look tidier. The car would be primarily for the track.... ... is, IMHO, the key here. Certainly you can bung a 'blade in an LA car fairly cheaply, but if you are doing a lot of track work, then you also really need to think about the stresses and strains on the axle, the noise levels etc Also worth thinking about whether a carbed Blade is still the engine of choice, although I agree Brodie's "kit" looks excellent VFM. DanBs figures are about right for a carb installation, although it is a lot easier to spend more if you go for an injected engine requiring a dry sump and want a few shiny bits. There are a few places that will do the transplant for you, as I said STM did mine - happy with it, but it was just the "basic" get the engine and get it working, the car looks like a dogs breakfast now. Plays Kool Motorsport will also do it for a similar price. Not sure I would want either to do the full thing, better to get a caterham specialist - no reflection on their work, but it just isn't the business they are in, sorting out looms and stuff. If I were to start again I would engage the Caterham "expert" first. FWIW my EFI gixxer transplant cost £6k to do the basic install, most of that is "bits" with little labour charge. The (slow) birth of the Gixxerham : NEW pics here drivel here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheds Moderator Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 6k for the basic install. Cue asthmatic wheezing. Jeez. Still, no doubt the end result will be worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet Elizabeth Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 £2500 for the engine and DS. £500 for a set of custom headers. Halfway there already ! There there are the fuel tank mods & pump, diff mods, clutch conversion, gear linkage, propshaft and linkage. It adds up very quickly. If you knock off £1500 for a cheaper engine, £500 for the extra bits the EFI needs (tank and trick ECU) that leaves £4k. You *might* squeeze an extra £500 savings with some careful buying. Now doing something with the springs, re side-skin, sorting out a dash. Yes, £4500 if you are really careful. £5k if you want it to look a bit nicer and perhaps be quiet enough for Bedford etc Still leaves you with a decent upgrade path over the next years. Go for it ! Alternatively, spend a lot more more and time worrying about the wieght saving of every nut and bolt 😬 The (slow) birth of the Gixxerham : NEW pics here drivel here Edited by - Noger on 17 Mar 2005 12:06:25 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisG Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 Kit Car Workshop would probably also do a conversion for you. I'd go along with the other's figures, £2k for a self converted blade install (without dry sump), with probably £1-2k's worth of labour at a guess Chris Edited by - ChrisG on 17 Mar 2005 12:08:33 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caligarinet Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 6k for the basic install. Cue asthmatic wheezing. eek, thats getting close to what I paid for the whole car, bike engine included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irrelevant Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 Forge Motorsport said they can do a full Hayabusa install for about £3K - you'd have to supply all the bits of course. Getting there.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrino Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 OK, I've added up what it cost me to get the R1 in, and it came to *roughly* £2900 (call it £3K with sundries). This includes: '99 R1 engine (carbed) + all ancillaries, fuel pump etc....; carb rejet kit; air filter; sump baffle plate; fabrication of engine cradle + chassis modification; fabrication of gear linkage mechanism; prop adapter; 2-piece prop with torque-resilient tube + modification; new 3.27 CWP and setup; exhaust manifold & silencer; radiator. Fabrication work (left that to the pros!) was done by STM. You will also need to budget for new instrumentation and many consider an LSD to be indispensable. There are undoubtedly other bits I have forgotten, but those are the main ones..... I happened to have a sought-after engine & gearbox setup to sell, and so the sale of this ate into 2/3 of my bill :) Everything else is optional - I had been planning a reskin and repaint anyway, and didn't want the car to look RAF with such a lovely engine. Also bought new wheels, brakes, kliktronic, CF bits..... Found quite a few bargains on the way 😬 Got the guitar, got the keyboard - now got the engine 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gee_fin Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 I would always err on the side of caution, as mentioned above, it can be done cheap but the end result will generally reflect this. Most people just take the cost of an engine as the install and think that will be it. However, doing it properly will mean - - new engine - new prop - new diff ratio - new loom (and stripping of the bike loom) - new springs/damping ratios - new mounts/linkages/potential relocation of chassis bars etc - new exhaust manifold/silencer - potentially new bodywork/bonnet/panels - new dash - new gauges/switchgear - setup cost of jetting/sorting engine - changes in fueling setup/lines - reverse setup (if required) Throw in some potential registry/DVLA hassles if using a second-hand engine (ie. they may move you to a Q plate) and the fact that engine-changed Caterhams seem to lose value in the majority of cases so you will have likely knocked a chunk off the resale of your car. Of course, the flip side is if you can get good money for your existing setup and let that pay for most of the conversion. The work required will surprise you in how simple it is to fit the engine and once fitted they are great fun. But, the word of caution is, correctly/fully done, conversions are not as cheap as many would like or Internet lore would have us believe :) Graeme. ________________________________________________________ graeme finlayson / tyre warmer / fluke motorsport graeme@fluke-motorsport.co.uk / www.fluke-motorsport.co.uk Edited by - gee_fin on 17 Mar 2005 14:47:54 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irrelevant Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 conversions are not as cheap as many would like or Internet lore would have us believe Tell me about it ☹️ . . . Getting there.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet Elizabeth Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 Thats because you want to go BACKWARDS as well Adam I too am surprised at the re-sale value of BE-Caterhams. Think there was a Busa on For Sale for silly money a while ago. If you can ignore the resale, you end up with a unique vehicle, and I am not sure that, if I added up all the costs AND the cost of the car, it would be anywhere near that of a similarly power/weight K. Not heard about the DVLA issues The (slow) birth of the Gixxerham : NEW pics here drivel here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gee_fin Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 Good point, forget about reverse lol. I'll add that too :) ________________________________________________________ graeme finlayson / tyre warmer / fluke motorsport graeme@fluke-motorsport.co.uk / www.fluke-motorsport.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coose Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 Aye, the costs seem about right, where my R1 has cost about £2500 in bits to fit to my Striker. Without a reverse of course.... But that's with a one-off stainless 4-2-1 chimberley and making the mounts/prop-shaft centre bearing mount and gearchange etc. meself.... I had no problems whatsoever changing the logbook from 1300cc to 998, so I would worry too much there..... p.s. Wish me luck - it's MOT time on Saturday!!!!! 😳 We will mend it We will fix it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen grant Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 FWIW - I note that James Whiting is advertising a one-off Crossflow->Blackbird conversion on his website at the moment. I guess he's got hold of a spare Blackbird engine. stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irrelevant Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 Thats because you want to go BACKWARDS as well Adam Noger: Well that's part of it...what's really costing the money is the going forward bit Wrt resale - there was a Blackbird MS engined 1500 Busa on Autotrader last week, fresh from a rebuild, for £24K. Another new (on paper) Blackbird MS Busa Cat was up at c.£23K recently. Thus, they can command good money - that's R500 territory after all....... Getting there.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheds Moderator Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 In the real world however Caligarinet got his for a song. Good on him, it was a cracking bargain, so cheap we all thought here on BC that it was a bent one, but it goes to show that they don't all cost £23k. As ever, you have to commit to a bit of work for the best bargains (says the man who got a 1.4kss 2 years ago for the price of a rough Xflow. ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet Elizabeth Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 There was a 'Bird for sale at around £16 last year I think. Bargain. The (slow) birth of the Gixxerham : NEW pics here drivel here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogvet Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 Sell it as it is ,then buy a Starter kit and cheery pick what you wish. add in 2nd hand Blade (300bhp/tonne) RI (400bhp/tonne) and get someone to fit the linkages and mounts, rest is pretty easy, this way you can accomodate most of what Graeme says in the outset £13000 is prob feasible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisG Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 FWIW - I note that James Whiting is advertising a one-off Crossflow->Blackbird conversion on his website at the moment. I guess he's got hold of a spare Blackbird engine. I think its explained in the For Sale section, they've got an "important" Caterham that they need to convert back to its original spec of X Flow, it currently has a 'bird engine in so they are looking for someone with an X-Flow car that they can basically swap over bits with, converting the BEC to a CEC, and the CEC to a BEC :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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