Jenson Button Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 I'm about to invest in my first trailer and, looking at what's available second hand, I think I'm going to buy new. I am on quite a tight budget and am considering Woodford trailers and PRG trailers. The PRG trailers are approx £250 extra for the same spec - is it worth it? I'm vearing towards Woodford - any comments? Secondly, can anyone tell me whether there is any reason to go for a twin axle model? The single axle has enough carrying capacity and I'm trying to keep costs down... Finally, what length will I need? I only ever intend to tow the Caterham - the Woodford comes in 8'8", 10' or 11' lengths... Any advice gratefully received Richard Edited by - ChocolateTelevision on 8 Mar 2005 14:29:53 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manxseven Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 What will you be towing it with 🤔 Twin Axle the preferred choice L7 BDA Supersprint Joy here 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenson Button Posted March 8, 2005 Author Share Posted March 8, 2005 Hmm....that's the big question! I'm having to buy a dedicated towcar (on the cheap). It's going to be something (sexy 😳) like a Mitsubishi Charisma, Daewoo Nubira or Chrysler Neon. I did see a Citroen Xantia Diesel today which was cheap but more than I wanted to spend. It's likely to be a 2.0 litre petrol car of that ilk... What is the advantage of twin axle? It's about 30% more expensive... I'd prefer to keep the cost down unless it really is a false economy going for single axle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manxseven Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 Not a Daewoo 😳 you'd be putting that on the trailer and towing with the seven 😬 😬 I add Nissan Primera to your list. Twin Axle more stable, better balanced. L7 BDA Supersprint Joy here 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterg Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 DON'T REPEAT DON'T get a Chrysler Neon for towing IIRC when I worked at a DC dealership the recommended towing max was something like 200kg assuming you could even get a towbar for one - that max is just enough for the old men that bought them to get their rubbish up the tip.....they should have left the Neon there too 🙆🏻 we ran some as courtesy cars and I got so many people asking if they were diesels because of the racket on startup 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Bees Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 I wouldn't have any qualms about buying a Woodford trailer. 4-wheel trailers are *much* more stable - that's not to say that all 2-wheel trailers are bad but I've never experienced a 4-wheel trailer going into 'ever-increasing oscillation mode' they just seem to automatically settle down however (reasonably) hard you provoke them. OTOH a 2-wheel trailer is a lot easier to move around by hand because you can spin it on the spot without putting a massive load on the jockey wheel. The flipside to this is that a 2-wheel trailer can/will try to turn/roll away on any non-level surface where a 4-wheel will only roll if it's pointing near to up/down the slope. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Normans_Ghost Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 Choc, what's the budget for the tow car. A mate of mine is selling his wifes Merc. It's right, an 89 model and is £2000. If you want me to find out more email me. Norman Verona, 1989 BDR 220bhp, Mem No 2166, the full story here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mav Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 Agree with Mike. twin axle is much much more stable. I have a PRG as it was over 750 quid cheaper than the eqivalent form Brian James, plus they are reasonably local to me, so collection was cheap. If woodford had been mentioned to me when buying mine, I'd have seriously considered them. The PRG has been an excellent bit of kit for the seven... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenson Button Posted March 8, 2005 Author Share Posted March 8, 2005 Norman, I'll pass on the Merc thanks . I'm in the trade myself so should be able to source something cheap. As an example, the Citroen Xantia was a 98S 40k miles diesel, auto for £1500. I still didn't buy it though as I hate autos!!! I reckon between £1k and £1500 will buy me something to do the job. Mike How common is the 'ever-increasing oscillation mode' with 2-wheel trailers? What I'm getting at is, assuming sensible driving, how much of a risk is it that the trailer tries to overtake the car? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mav Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 Towing a 7 I'd always go for the twin axle to help eliminate the possability of the swing. I have experienced it with my 4 wheel / twin axle trailer and it was not a nice experience. If it had been with a single axle / 2 wheel trailer, then I'm sure I'd have lost my car... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A10ROX Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 Auto every time for towing makes pulling out of junctions so much easier It's not primrose it's Dakkar Yellow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slipper man Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 I would never have a single axle trailer. the consequences of a blow out don't bear thinking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenson Button Posted March 8, 2005 Author Share Posted March 8, 2005 Hmmm....maybe I need to revisit the Citroen Diesel Auto.... Anyone know what length trailer I'll need? 8'8", 10' or 11'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikevernontalktalk.net Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 Disagree. I see no reason why a 2 wheel trailer should be less stable than a 4 wheeler. I've towed both including some very stable 2 wheelers and generally would choose a lighter one rather than a heavier one. Instability is usually caused by incorrect weight distribution. But I'd prefer to have a puncture in a 4 wheeler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thinfourth Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 Agreed with 2 wheels you are far easier to move around. Also 2 wheels lighter so therefore better to tow. As to fish tailing i find that my trailer is very sensitive to loading. When the car is on it by itself you can lift the nose wheel with 1 finger. In this mode it starts to fish tail very easily but stick all the wheels in the tyre rack and the nose wieght is about perfect and it is nice and stable up to 70ish. So if you have lots of room and cash go 4 wheels, if short of both go 2 wheels. Now as to punctures yes you might get 1 but look after you trailer wheels and they should be reliable, the reason that trailers get lots of punctures is neglect with tyres being left in 1 position for ages and getting old and perishing. But 4 wheels are safer i remember someone turning up at a trackday with a 3 wheel trailer. he had come all the way from aberdeen with the 4th wheel sitting outside his drive Sod the heater wheres my shades Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old captain slow Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 If you raise the trailer on the jockey wheel until the front pair of wheels is clear of the ground then it will go around just as easily as a two wheel trailer. C7 CDW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbutnotslow Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 Hi Richard, Go for a 4 wheel trailer. Ive towed for 23 years and you CAN tell the difference. You have 4 braked wheels so if you have a loaded trailer it stops that little bit better. They don’t fall over! Also not so fussy about the nose weight as a 2 wheel trailer. The general rule is that your trailer + the weight of the 7 should not exceed 85% of the cars curb weight. Make sure that the car you chose you can load the tow hitch to at least 75kg As a good guide have a look at the local caravaners. Most times their tow cars will cope with what you are going to do. I have a PRG mini sport designed for the 7. Great outfit and lower cost than BG Regards Grant Black and stone chip and currently not going but getting better ☹️ here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadership Team SLR No.77 Posted March 8, 2005 Leadership Team Share Posted March 8, 2005 I bought a s/h Minno, 2001 model, for £900 including a Jerry can box Tows perfectly and can be easily manouvered by hand by raising on the jockey wheel - as David says the front to wheels clear the ground. Keep looking, there's bargains to be had Stu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Bees Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 4-wheel is still harder to move about than 2, because to get the front wheels off the ground (when laden) it puts a huge weight on the jockey wheel. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owelly Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 I'm struggling to see why people are saying two wheeled trailers are unstable. If you can't load a trailer properly, you shouldn't have one. If you have a blowout on a two wheeled trailer, the trailer still follows the car but makes an awful noise. If you have a blowout on a four wheeled unit, and its a back wheel, it will snake you car off the road and into the nearest ditch if you are lucky. Do we worry about the towcar having a blowout? If you don't need a four wheeled trailer because your load is not too heavy, why spend the extra money to buy the trailer, wear out four tyres, four sets of bearings and have the extra weight to drag around. Chance are the tyres will perish long before they wear out anyway. I have always had a few trailers at my disposal and the thought of hitching up one of the heavy ones to carry a small load seems a bit daft. If your towcar can manage to pull an unbraked trailer, then all the better. Save more money! My advise would be to get one with a single axle, run flat tyres and a solid base to stop your car getting filthy when the roads are wet. Don't get one with ramps that are hinged up at the back as they act as huge air brakes. Have removable ramps. Or better still, hire a few different sorts THEN spend your money. Oh, and fit a winch on the front as it makes lashing the car on very easy! its only a game......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Durrant Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 Having towed a 7 on both a single axle and twin axled trailer I would always go for a twin axle as it is far more stable and less sensitive to getting the nose weight correct, that said I ensure that the nose weight is within the tow cars recommended limits. Having seen the result of a blow out on a BJ Minno (twin axle) and experienced a puncture myself I totally diagree with Owelly's comment that 'if you have a blowout on a four wheeled unit, and its a back wheel, it will snake you car off the road and into the nearest ditch if you are lucky'. I'm not sure where that little gem came from and it is certainly not my experience. I would also recommend that you have a braked trailer otherwise you are putting additional strain on your towcar brakes and increasing your stopping distance under braking. If you go to a club track day, sprint or the paddock at a Grads event you will be hard pushed to find a single axle trailer, I think this tells you all you need to know. If you look around a good Minno can be had for around £800-£1000 with minimal depreciation. Mark D Su77on Se7ens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Biddle Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 I have been towing for many years, and with much heavier trailers than we are talking about here. 1. Single axle trailers tow much better than twin axle. 2. It's twin axle trailers that get the "snakes". I've ben thrown frown from hard shoulder to fast lane and back again quite a few times (very scary) but never with a single axle. This phenomenem is very speed sensitive, it always seems to happen at the same speed with the same trailer, and it differs trailer to trailer, even if they are identical. Where you are loading something onto a trailer, as in this case it is VITAL to get the nose weight right, this is a critical safety factor. Re different manufacturers, We are going to be buying PRG for our equipment to be sold in Europe. Very good quality, and decent people to deal with. Don't know the other crew so can't comment. Having said that, occasional towing with a seven on board is hardly a heavy duty task, so both should be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Bees Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 At the sort of trailer sizes we're interested in here a 4-wheel trailer is intrinsically *more* stable than a 2-wheel trailer - they're also affected a lot less by crosswinds and the buffeting you get when you pass an HGV or coach. BUT this isn't the same as saying that all 2-wheel trailers are intrinsically unstable. The only 2-wheel car trailer I've ever used was small, light, and a complete nightmare and yes I do know how to load a trailer. I'm sure there are good 2-wheel trailers which are ideal for a light load. You'd need a *big* towcar to safely pull 800-1000kg or so of car and trailer without brakes. And however big the towcar, the trailer will still try to overtake by any route (e.g. sideways) under hard braking - this will be greatly reduced if the trailer is braked. Oh, this was more in reply to Owelly's post than Mike's (which slipped in while I was typing this). Mike Edited by - Mike Bees on 9 Mar 2005 07:42:17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owelly Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 Here we go............. Four wheeled trailers are more sensitive to been level. If the front wheels take more weight than the rear axle, then the effectiveness of the the rear set is greatly reduced to the point of becoming a dead weight. This is what happens if one of the rear wheels gets a blowout or is underinflated. If the fronts are taking too much weight because of this, either because the towcars rear has drooped due to the extra weight, a quick fix is to reduce the pressures in the front wheels/increase the pressures in the rears. With too much weight over the front axle, the trailer will start to snake. By putting on the brakes, the weight is transferred forward pushing down on the rear of the towcar and making the rear of the trailer lift and so makes the imbalance/snaking worse. That is why a blowout on the rear makes the trailer unstable. If the front axle is taking too much weight, it does not follow that the nose weight will be too high. I'd must confess that I do tend to use heavy towcars.Which is why I said 'If your towcar can manage to pull an unbraked trailer'. The problem with trailer brakes is that due to lack of use in most cases, they are often ineffective when you need them most. Or they are unbalanced so they pull when applied. How many people know how to test trailer brakes correctly? Most people hear the 'thump' as the drawbar slides in and out and assume that things are working. I have no intention of arguing with the countless theories and opinions of people. My 'gems' come from 20 years of servicing, designing (dozens) building (hundreds) and towing (for thousands of miles) every sort of trailer imaginable. As I said before, borrow/hire several different types before you buy. its only a game......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Bill Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 Owelly, would a vectra be able to tow a series two landie on a good twin axle trailer, for a LONG way? BB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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