yankeedoodoo Posted February 27, 2005 Share Posted February 27, 2005 A lower A arm failed on an SV today. We are wondering if this has happened before?? Fortunately no one was hurt!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Beaumont Posted February 27, 2005 Share Posted February 27, 2005 In USA parlance an "A arm" is a wishbone, right? Confusing on a Caterham when the lower De Dion link is called an A frame. Nasty whichever way. Where did it fail? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Mupferit Posted February 27, 2005 Share Posted February 27, 2005 I think it failed in California. 😬 Brent 2.3 DURATEC SV. In the final weeks of gestation. 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xflow7 Posted February 27, 2005 Share Posted February 27, 2005 Luke, Yes, A-arm *arrowright*wishbone. Brent, 😬 Under what circumstances did it fail? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonbell Posted February 27, 2005 Share Posted February 27, 2005 This is interesting. When I had my Birkin the American owners were always having problems with lower wishbone failure yet AFAIK it was never a problem in the UK and certainly never a problem on mine despite the hammering it got on some of Irelands back roads. ON the car with the wishbone that failed did it have std Caterham spec springs and dampers? This seemed to be one issue which may have contributed to the failure on the Birkin. I can`t believe the roads in California are any worse than the ones in NI Simon Bell - Caterham 7 Duratec R I`ve seen the future.....and it`s powered by duratec Check out the website here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Beaumont Posted February 27, 2005 Share Posted February 27, 2005 Waiter? Can I order a large >slap< for Mr Chiswick please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julians Posted February 27, 2005 Share Posted February 27, 2005 One of the bookatrack caterhams suffered a lower wishbone failure, thats the only one I've heard about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yankeedoodoo Posted February 27, 2005 Author Share Posted February 27, 2005 The failure was on the left front lower under braking from 30-40 MPH and the left front wheel just came off. It appears to be a structural failure, but a little more examination is on the schedule for tomorrow. The car is a Duratec SV. Thank you for the responses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul McKenzie Posted February 27, 2005 Share Posted February 27, 2005 Duratec SV? If it's FWD as well that maybe explains it Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Beaumont Posted February 27, 2005 Share Posted February 27, 2005 I'd be interested to know exactly what bit failed. From your description it sounds like the boss that holds the lower upright spherical bearing separated from the 'bone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Perry Posted February 27, 2005 Share Posted February 27, 2005 Or did it fail at the wishbone damper mount ? Are there any photo's ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yankeedoodoo Posted February 27, 2005 Author Share Posted February 27, 2005 Photos can be Emailed. Contact me: nikkolito2002@yahoo.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve-B Posted February 27, 2005 Share Posted February 27, 2005 i had a failure in my left one last year, the spherical rotating bit became loose in the frame/shaft it was mounted in. didn't notice / feel anything but was led to believe that had it not been discovered what you're talking about could've happened to me. what age is the car in question? mine is May 2001, and this occurred at about 12K miles ☹️ A-frame is now replaced ❗ ❗ ❗ Steve B Big Black Beast^3 USA 2005: How the West Was Driven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yankeedoodoo Posted February 28, 2005 Author Share Posted February 28, 2005 The car was registered in 2003 and alledgedly has 600 miles on the clock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnusfeuer Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 I was in the car when it happened. We were doing approx 30 mph when we braked moderatly ahead of a dip in the road. Before we hit the dip, at about 15mph, the left lower wishbone collapsed, and we skidded to a halt about 100 ft further down the road. The rear arm snapped straight off, leaving the bush in place in its frame mounting with a approx 1 cm of wishbone tubing protuding from the bush/wishbone weld. The front wishbone tubing encasing the front bush opened up and released from the bush, which was left in place on the front end of the car. I cannot tell if the front or the rear arm failed first. Once the failure was complete, the entire front wheel assembly rotated 180 degrees counterclockwise, probably due to the torque induced during braking, and snapped off the stock Bilstein shock. The rest of the car's travel to a full stop occured on the fender, marking our progress with a green streak on the road. The upper wishbone was left intact since the upper balljoint pivoted in the threading normally used to adjust camber. During the rotation, the lower wishbone said hello to the aluminium skin and more or less shredded it. There were no personal injuries, and we were extremely lucky since I had been test driving the car at speed on the highway just 30 minutes earlier. As far as I could see on site, the tubular framing was not warped. Since the (aluminum) oil pan took a part of the impact when the car went down, we must check that the pan is OK and that the engine mounts survived the shock. I'd like to emphasise that there was no extreme driving involved in this. We were driving in a residential area to pinpoint a weak spot in the mapping when the collapse occured. The tires were stock Avons (ZV1?) on Catehram's 16" wheels, which guarantees that no excessive forces were in play since they are quite slippery. After I have talked to Caterham USA, and if the owner agrees, I'll post pictures of the incident on the California Caterham Club site. Until then, I've removed the link I mailed yankeedoodoo from the site. /Magnus F. Edited by - magnusfeuer on 28 Feb 2005 03:17:51 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slomove Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 Brad, how can you wreck your car when the most important track day of the year is coming up 😬 But seriously, good to hear you and Magnus are O.K. (and the car still in repairable shape...) This does not sound like the problem Simon mentioned that several Birkins had a while ago. In their case it was apparently incorrect spring/shock setup that made it bottom out and bend/buckle the a-arm at the shock attachment point. Not such a complete rupture. The failure Magnus describes sounds really weird. Right in the middle of the tube? I would really like to see the pics.... Gert P.S.: Better don't imagine that happened on one of our mountain blats PPS: Oops, just read "Duratec SV"....that is not your car anyway, isn't it? Edited by - Slomove on 28 Feb 2005 03:54:30 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnusfeuer Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 Gert, This was not Brad's car. I'll lie low with owner info until he has cleared things on his end. /Magnus F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Perry Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 Never heard of a failure in the middle of a tube before. Sounds like you were unlucky. ☹️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony C Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 Glad the result wasn't more serious 😬 Eagerly await the photo's - I think I'll give my front suspension a detailed check - just in case 😬 BRG Brooklands SV 😬 It seems that perfection is achieved not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing more to take away. (Antoine de Saint-Exupery) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xflow7 Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 Interesting (and a little un-nerving). By the sounds of it, the failure in the rear leg wasn't "in the middle of the tube." 1cm from the weld may be within the heat affected zone of the weld. Was the failure of the bush housing on the front adjacent to the weld with the 'leg' of the wishbone? All speculation at this point, but my hunch would be that the front failed first, and then as the rear tube bent backwards it snapped perhaps due to embrittlement from the weld. Are the SV wishbones of the same design as those on the standard car (but longer)? Anyone know offhand how much longer the wishbones on an SV might be than on a standard car? Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yankeedoodoo Posted February 28, 2005 Author Share Posted February 28, 2005 Sorry about the confusion in terminology which I have caused. We lot talk funny over here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnusfeuer Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 Ok, I've spoken to the owner, who gave his permission to post the pictures: here Feel free to post comments by clicking on "Comment" under each picture. I have more pictures in a higher resolution. For those who wants it all, surf to: here and open the file in winzip. /Magnus F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony C Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 It looks to me that the front failed first. The rear break is bright metal, whereas the front looks quite corroded and "Nasty" It's likely to be an isolated event, but I intend to give my front end a good close look with a bright lamp and magnifying glass Have you had any official response? BRG Brooklands SV 😬 It seems that perfection is achieved not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing more to take away. (Antoine de Saint-Exupery) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xflow7 Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 I don't like how corroded the inside of the front bushing tube looks. Especially the fact that there is surface rust visible on the surfaces of the split as if maybe it's been partially split for some time. Also, what's all the crud visible in the shot of the other end of the split bushing tube (in the UnpublisedPhotos file)? Was that picked up as the car dragged to a stop? Very relieved no one was hurt. Hope you'll keep us informed of what you hear from Caterham/Caterham USA. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnusfeuer Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 Tony, I actually think it was the rear that failed first. If you look at the front tubing, it seems like it has been twisted off its bush. This would happen if the rear mount snapped and then the entire wishbone rotated as the rear end was pushed upward by the weight by the car. The rotating action then twisted off the front mounting. The crud inside the front mount was asphalt picked up during our skidding. /Magnus F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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