Laurence Wilson Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 I've had one sitting in the back of the garage longer than I've had the Seven; brought it with us when we moved house 'cos I knew I'd want it at a later date !! I'm stripping it down at the moment and wonder if the collected wisdom of blat can suggest what upgrades I should be considering. At the moment the car has just 84bhp but when the axle goes in it should have a whopping 100 ; so in the short term it's not going to be suffering too much abuse. Current considerations are Quaife ATB and Sierra callipers to replace the drums. What case mods are required ?? Can any of the Escort bracketry be cut off ?? What will I need to have welded on ?? And why am I having so much trouble withdrawing the half shafts ?? I've removed the drum, shoes and four retaining nuts on the flange. The back of the drum on the side I've started with now rattles about but the half shaft refuses to shift despite much persuasion with my slide hammer Pear shaped Edited by - Peardrop on 23 Feb 2005 19:16:28 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philwaters Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 I'm pretty sure you won't need any of the standard mountings. You'll need custom pick-ups for the dampers and the A-frame, for which you can go to Arch or HTR in Kent. You'll also need to have it strengthened, again, either of the two place above can do that for you at the same time. Arch weld the thick plate on and HTR weld on a box section which is meant to be stronger and lighter (I have the later) Other options: LSD from either Quaife or a plate type from Tran-X. For the brakes, SPC do brackets, although I am sure places like Burtons will have something suitable as well. No idea on the half shafts - sorry. Phil Waters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurence Wilson Posted February 23, 2005 Author Share Posted February 23, 2005 Thanks, Phil; you're website's been invaluable, BTW !! In so far as encouraging upgraditis, that is !! I've already looked at Burton's Sierra calliper brackets. They're currently on the top of my list 'cos unlike some other options they bolt on in place of the drums. Some others require welding. On the other hand they don't fit inside RS alloys (a set of which I had hoped to refurbish and use on track). I don't know if this applies to other alternatives ?? Anyone know if I can get the inside of my RS rims shaved (and lightened ) to suit ?? Pear shaped Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LancasterBob Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 Sounds like you have all the correct fasteners undone to get the half shafts out; one of mine was suspiciously easy, the other was a bitch to get out. Took some serious abuse after a good soak in penetrating oil. In the end i made a puller arrangement with threaded studding and some big steel box section; probably not what you're supposed to do but had the required effect. I'm glad you mentioned that the burtons brackets won't fit under RS rims; I'm planning on building a new axle to go in the fisher and discs are one of the things on my list. I would have thought that reducing the metal on the inside of RS rims would be cost-prohibitive, not to mention slightly scary in use! Also considering an ally diff nose and an anglia flange to reduce the unsprung mass a bit. You've probably read up on all the baffles that people put in to control oil surge? Cheers, Rob Rob Fishy 1400 Supersport, 95% complete and waiting for spring and SVA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurence Wilson Posted February 24, 2005 Author Share Posted February 24, 2005 According to Burton's catalogue, their rear disc kit does not fit inside the std. steel wheels or 6 x 13 RS alloy. Which is a bit of a nuisance !! IIRC an Anglia flange is required in order that the Escort axle fits inside a 7s transmission tunnel. Didn't know an ally diff nose was available ... must resist !! I had heard about baffles but I've not spent much time looking for info. Now I assume, running sticky rubber is more influential in a decision to have baffles than the overall power of the engine ... a I right ?? Pear shaped Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelspeed Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 Never mind aluminium you can get magnesium diff noses! James Whiting does some tasty disc conversions for the Ital axle, worth asking him if he can do similar for the English axle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrino Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 Out of interest, why are you so keen to go to discs on the rear? I'm guessing that a Sierra calliper setup is not going to weigh significantly less than the drum setup when fully dressed? If it's for braking efficiency, then could it disturb the front:rear brake bias (without bias control gizmo)? Sorry, not attacking your choice - just genuinely interested!!! Lobbying Caterham for a new badge.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barry.h Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 HTR can also supply/fit discs for you but like Ferrino I would question whether it is really worth the cost and trouble. If you go rear discs you will also have to modify the handbrake and probably fit a bias valve to enable you to adjust the front/rear braking balance. I have had both options on the Escort axle. The discs are sexier but really don't affect braking very much at all. Barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris K Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 Peardrop.. just wondering why you are fitting the English??? is the ital broken?? if its not then why bother changing.. my ital is currently having 160'ish bhp through it n (touch wood) no issues so far (nr 7k miles). As said above, Arch will wont it to fit the mounts as the std ones are not used (100ukp+?).. I think a different A frame will be required, but not sure on that.. why not just put the cash towards a Quaife LSD for the ital, sell the English for another 100ukp+ n your 1/2 way there PS.. I like your car.. looks nice Edited by - Chris K on 24 Feb 2005 13:31:08 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Paul Richards Posted February 24, 2005 Area Representative Share Posted February 24, 2005 Removing halfshafts is often difficult, even when on the car!! When you have the axle off the car it is crucial to hold the axle very still or the slide hammer won't be effective. Suggest you put the axle in a vice if possible. Secondly you need a good heavy slide hammer - many are 'lightweight'. I have a hefty home made version if you are near Lancashire, you can borrow. An alternative to slide hammer (and as you seem to be scrapping the drums) - Cut the backplates off - angle grinder or oxy acxetylene will do it. This then means you can attack the halfshaft directly with a sledge hammer!! Bit brutal, but it will work. Paul Richards Joint AO - L.A.D.S. (Lancashire and District Sevens) Growing old is compulsory - Growing up is optional Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurence Wilson Posted February 24, 2005 Author Share Posted February 24, 2005 I think I'd be correct in saying JW stopped doing the disc conversion for the Ital now he's no longer producing the 'blade. I'm swapping the English in for little more reason that I've got one and may aswell use it. If it wasn't already in the garage I probably wouldn't bother. I was thinking about dropping a bike lump into the car in which case I would certainly have left the Ital in but (again, 'cos I've got an English tempting me) I'm now considering something larger in capacity. Possibly a Duratec 😬 Thanks for the compliment, Chris 😬 !! Oh and the discs ?? I like shiny things. Sorry !! Pear shaped Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurence Wilson Posted February 24, 2005 Author Share Posted February 24, 2005 Ah thanks, Paul; exactly what I wanted to here ... hit it harder !! Pear shaped Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanteam Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 The reason I would change to discs would be that it is difficult to find a durable brake lining, mine get hot and fade quickly. Suggest you look at the Alfa/Fiat calipers, we found that they have similar fixings as the Sierra but smaller and lighter. Made by Lucas as many others... who ever Lucas is these days? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisG Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 Phil, why would you need to strenghten the axle casing if only putting 100bhp through it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary-Cornwall Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 I've swapped to the Ford Axle following dropping in the XE in place of the Vaux 1600. 9" Drums do a fine job as far as I'm concerned and would certainly think of better things to spend that money on. Would also wonder about bias issues with rear disks. Confirm need for smaller diff flange is essential and even then a few "taps" on the tunnel are required to create the room. Had to modify A-frame slightly also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elie boone Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 The English axle has baffles as standaard, at least mine had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisG Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 My two have baffles as standard too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LancasterBob Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 Mine had baffles in, but only the ones originally designed into the axle. These (from memory) are about the size of a credit card, and have the corners removed to allow the oil to move freely. They also had a hole in the centre for the half shaft to pass through. I'm fairly sure more elaborate types have been fitted to control surge when using slicks? Rob PS: Anyone know where / how much an anglia flange is? I've heard it advocated as a weight and clearance saving, but they must be thin on the ground now... Fishy 1400 Supersport, 95% complete and waiting for spring and SVA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisG Posted February 25, 2005 Share Posted February 25, 2005 Yep they could be improved, and probably would need to be on a slick shod car, but for normal road use it will be fine as is. I think you'll find tho that what ever baffle you design though, they might all need a hole through them for the half shafts to pass through *tongue* 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonB Posted February 26, 2005 Share Posted February 26, 2005 This might be a bit long & boring but it may help!. I built my seven originally with 180bhp BDA using an ital axle, fitted with Mk3 escort solid front discs redrilled for the smaller PCD. Arch welded all the brackets on except for the caliper mounts which I made myself. I originally used a Peugeot 205 1.9 Gti caliper. Its cheap, alloy (so its light) and has a handbrake mechanism built in. This needed a AP racing bias valve in the system. I was using the standard cast iron master cylinder and small 2 piston front brakes. This all worked very well - passed the SVA test no problem - and did about 3 seasons of very hard road and trackday use. No problems , no breakages at all. When things got a bit more competitive in the hillclimbing world I changed the motor for a 2.0l VX , about 200bhp but with loads of torque. I figured the Ital axle must have been on borrowed time so I swapped the axle for an 'english' Ford Escort version. Arch again welded on all the brackets. I made my own caliper mounts for 2 sets of rear calipers. A pair of 2 piston AP racing alloy ones for the footbrake, and a pair of Brembo alloy handbrake calipers (Aston Martin Vanquish type) which are mechanical only. I used an RS Turbo vented disc. Again the AP bias valve was used. Front brakes were upgraded to the AP 4 piston caliper and Alcon vented disc. The AP / XJ220 alloy master cylinder was fitted as well. I was using 8x13 front & 10x13 rear tyres in the softest compound slick that Yokohama make. Bearing in mind Hillclimbs involve a series of burnouts to warm the rear tyres and then a full bore standing start immediately afterwards, I never once broke a standard halfshaft in 3 more seasons. The only mod to the shafts was to turn down the flange OD to fit inside the 'bell' of the Ford discs, and to TIG weld the bearing retaining collar in place. No extra baffles were fitted to the axle casing. I did use about twice the normal amount of oil however just to be safe. Fitting the Ford axle to my 1998 spec chassis did however require the tunnel to be widened at the rear by the seat belt mounts. The last mod to this arrangement for the final season with the car was to fit a rear anti-roll bar. I bent my own bar (bit of a guess at 1/2 inch dia), 2 clevis's were welded to the rear of the axle tube, 2 rosejoined drop links were used with alloy sliders from Merlin motorsport. Merlin also supplied the nylon ARB blocks. These were bolted to the flat plates in the rear corners of the chassis. Bar ran across the back underside of the car under the fuel tank (looked pretty sexy) and bent forwards under the axle, droplinks then ran vertically up to the clevis on the tube. This all worked very well - lucky really 'cause it was just inspired guesswork!!. I've probably got a few photos of this if you're interested. Best of luck with the project. Simon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurence Wilson Posted February 26, 2005 Author Share Posted February 26, 2005 Well thanks, Simon; that does help !! If you've got some pics of your 2 piston AP / Brembo mechanical setup and of your Blue Peter anti roll bar, I'd be very interested to see them !! I'd really like to refurbish a pair of OE callipers retrieved from a scrap yard, for simplicitys sake. How did the AP / Brembo combo compare to the Pug callipers WRT weight ?? Pear shaped Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonB Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 The peugeot calipers were very light, not sure exactly how much. The AP / brembo setup was heavier but much better. I've searched for photos but dont appear to have filed them away anywhere. My car was sold and broken up for spares. Some of the parts (including these ones) will 'live-on' in another chassis. Once its finished come and take a look. Simon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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