Numpty Question

[Jenson Button]

I have a 1.6 supersport k-series. What sort of power do most people have in classes 2 or 3? I understand that it must run on the 'standard plenum' and wanted to know how much modification the class leaders undertook and what power they put out?

 

Also, given that classes 2 and 3 and separated only by tyres as far as I can see, does anyone have a view on which might be a better class to enter as a novice?

[robmar]

if you are talking k's then most people run pretty standard setups and not major engine mods, so in general 130-145 bhp for supersport models

 

of course the twinks and steel xflows pump out way more than that 😬

 

as for which class is best, I would say this depends ona number fo factors

 

1. what tyres do you currently have 🤔

2. what tyres are you used to 🤔

3. do you intend to trailer 🤔

4. do you want to have a 2nd set of competition wheels, at extra cost etc etc 🤔

 

as a newbie I would suggest with enter which class your current tyres permit. Then if you enjoy it you can look at a 2nd / different set of wheels.

 

What ever there is a large amount of banter in both classes and I am sure you will receive a very warm welcome in both, unless of course you win everything and then people will want to know what secret mods you have 😬

 

rob

[Jenson Button]

Thanks Rob

While I very much doubt I'll be anywhere up near the leaders, it would be nice to know roughly how level the playing field is... I fully understand that mods to the driver will make more difference than mods to the car though I'm trying to get a feel for what the performance differences are like within the same class.

 

Are the k's competitive against the XF's and others then?

 

As for tyres, I don't mind getting a spare set. Currently I'm on A048's which I use as an all year tyre. I guess in class 3 you'd need ACB-10's? For class 2, the tyres might make the car more fun (less grip 😬), though again wanted to know how competitive each class was. i.e. do people generally start in class 2 and then progress to class 3 which would mean there are more experienced (and faster) people in class 3?

 

Again, I'm not looking to win, and I know I'll have fun wherever I finish, though it might be a bit demotivating if I can't finish at least a respectable distance behind the leaders... 😬

[Richard Price]

As to which class to enter, I would say "run with whatever tyres you have now".

On my first visit to Curborough I ran a totally standard 1600 roadsport with 14" Avon ZV1's. I did a best time of 69.07. I returned a few months later with 13" Bridgestone RE720's and a different front anti roll bar. I was gutted to improve by only half a second. I took advice on how to drive the course, and improved by two and a half seconds! Eventually getting down to 65.25 with an almost standard car.

I returned at the start of last year, now running an aeroscreen, having fitted different cams (Piper - close to supersport - but still the standard ECU) and a mildly ported head. I was disapointed to only improve by 1/4 of a second. I did another event in this spec and managed to shave another half a second off. By August last year I'd also changed the exhaust for a long 4 branch, and improved to 64.41 best (1st in class 2). However the class 2 win the previous August had been done in a standard Academy car on their control tyres (accepted as crap!!)!!.

Llandow the previous year had also been won by a standard Academy car!

 

Have a go! See how you go, but don't get all hung up about what power and tyres until you're challenging for the class lead.

 

If you run in class 3, you NEED A24 compound ACB10's to be competitive, but that's very expensive! they don't last very long!!

[robmar]

if you take a look at the times (in class3) between myself (1600SS), Adrian Williams(1600SS), David Nelson (1800SS) & Paul Dickens (1800SS), you will see that it can be reasonably tight with pretty much the same spec of cars. At the very top/fastest was Dave McFarlane with a high spec and very well driven xflow, other cars and drivers have also added tot he mix at various venues. If you ignore Dave then it is very competitive and close at the top of class3....

 

As to are the K's competitive against the xflows, it has been proved that a very well driven k can keep up with a very well driven put higher powered Xflow , it usually depends on conditions of the day and local knowledge and driver skill(eg powderpuff at curbugger). But there is the potential within the rules to have very high powered xflows and twinks, but they are not that common.

 

48's for a beginner should be fine, most of us at the top of class 3 run acb10 compound 24's , but you don't need these to be competitive, but these are reasonably expensive for what they are and won't last long, and also require a change in setup to get the best out of them. (those that do run acb10's also tend to use cr500's as they don't need the setup change) You maybe better getting some 32's in the supersoft compiund, a tyre that Dave Jackson uses in class 5 to great effect....I think there may also be a 48 in SS compound comign out at some point but I am not 100%.

 

If you are not looking to win but just have fun then i suggets you stick with the 48's for now, and if you get the bug get some others later in the year *thumbup*

 

rob

[robmar]

as an aside I have done 3 sprints at Llandow

 

2004 I managed 84.13 on acb10 compound 24's which was good enough for 6th place

2003 I managed 84.11 on acb10 compound 24's which was good enough for 2nd place

2002 I managed 85.25 on Yoko 32's which was good enough for 2nd place

 

Rob Grigsby sharing my car in 2004 did 81.79 which was good enough for 2nd place

 

so as you can see over the last 3 years competition has become fiercer and the times tumbling accordingly

 

the class 3 record for llandow is 81.19 by Dave Mcfarlane, so you can see with the correct driver the SS cars can be competitive....

[Richard Price]

the tyres might make the car more fun (less grip 😬),

 

I drove a couple of sessions at an Anglsea track day on a set of A032R's, it was quicker than my normal RE720's, but no more fun!

My RE720's are now entering their 4th year (7K miles) and only just down to the optimum 4mm in the centre (but unfortunately less at both shoulders!)

[robmar]

in comparison my acb10's did 10 events and possibly 200 road miles, the rears are illegal, and so will be trashed at the llandow test day in march, unless it is wet of course ☹️

 

rob

[Jenson Button]

OK, OK, assuming class 2, then am I right in saying Yoko A539's are the tyre of choice since the RE720's got deleted? And if I'm running a tyre with less grip than I'm used to, would it be any better to go to a 7" or 8" rim at the rear or would that be wasted?

[Graham Perry]

Great advice guys Not sure what the tyre of choice is for class 2 now that 720's are gone. I will have to have another (2 event) season on my concrete ZV1's which I wouldn't recommend to anyone.

 

I borrowed some 720's for a track day last year and I thought they were very good, although the superwide Dunlop 2000's I also used (225 x 13) I had the edge on rear grip off the line.

 

Edited by - Graham Perry on 23 Feb 2005 15:12:41

[Paul Bowden]

I am not sure how many L7C competitors sprint in other championships, but the fact that most other championships have changed their regs this year to allow list 1B tyres ( ACB 10's/ CR500's amongst others)in the class that caters for Caterhams etc , may move more people into class 3. ie you do not need to run crap rubber for sprinting in these other championships

[Graham Perry]

Yes Paul, and thats another dilemma, what to run at the local sprint at Debden this year

 

If push comes to shove I have to dob out about 800 quid for two MB wheels (I have two spare) and a set of grippy rubber round things. ☹️

 

Edited by - Graham Perry on 23 Feb 2005 20:52:53