oldbutnotslow Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 There are hundreds of threads on the subject and being lazy I thought I would ask for feedback directly. I will be upgrading the fronts after another engine up grade to 180bhp so I am seeking views on which is going to be the most cost effective solution. My car did just under 3k miles last year, all but 400 of these were on track. There seem to be 4 choices. The Caterham 4 pot with 257.5mm vented rotors and up rated MC(but at a price - £700 + MC). James Whiting 4 pot Alcon using standard sized rotors and no MC change (£570) Hi-Spec 4 pot with 250mm grooved rotors Radial mount + Lug kit (£430 + Pads, not sure about the MC) and Willwood whom I have little info on. I know that the Caterham kit will work so I am fine about its performance - Its the cost of the CC kit thats putting me off. So I am seeking feedback on the James Whiting kit, Hi-Spec and Willwood. Are there any others? Has anyone experience of any of them? What has the service been like? Have you had any problems? Would you buy the same kit again if yes why? if no why and which one would you buy? I know that Norman Verona has Willwood fitted and I have e-mailed him directly but would still like to hear from others who may use them. I currently use standard rotors and Mintex 1144 pads all round with SFR fluid. Hard pedal and no fade. Thoughts on pads would also be welcome as well. CC recommend Pagid RS14b, James Whiting recommend EBC Green Stuff whilst Hi-Spec say the 1144 mintex or Pagid. Your feedback would be most welcome ❗ Grant Black and stone chip and currently not going ☹️ here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Wong1697456877 Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 Pagids - expensive but very good and durable. I found EBC pads wore out very quickly - two trackdays could finish a set of greens! (although they have changed spec since I used them) 1144Mintex seems to be very good from what I hear, and pretty durable, and less than half the price of Pagids! Edited by - Alex Wong on 22 Feb 2005 11:15:54 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgrigsby Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 I'd go for the Pagids it's worth the extra money! superb pedal feel and they seem to last for ever as for which calipers ermm. not sure. I think Vinnie on the se7ens list has just gone for the JW Alcons with the standard disks after spending quite a bit of time looking at everything. He's got a 250bhp VX in his and isn't known to be the slowest driver ever! Rob G www.SpeedySeven.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F355GTS Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 I'm using the Caterham big brakes, they work very well although I think I'd benefit from the upgraded rears. I have used Mintex 1166 pads and Ferodo DS2500, I now have new DS3000's in having used them briefly once before and been very impressed, I also have some 1177's to try I tried Pagid, RS4-2's I think????, didn't like them at all, no where near enough bite. RobG used to use Red Stuff in his 165BHP 7 and I think they only lasted a trackday or two Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Perry Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 Happy with my Alcons from JW. I found that they needed a brake balance aduster on my car though I thought the new Hi-spec ones where cheaper than you quote, but perhaps your price includes discs and pads ? See here Edited by - Graham Perry on 22 Feb 2005 11:29:59 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrino Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 Personally, I am going for the Hi-Spec 4-pot Ultralites, which bolt straight onto the Caterham uprights. I calculated that the piston area is 104% of the standard Triumph 2-pots, and therefore will be retaining standard MC (but please don't quote me on that number). To keep costs & weight down, I am sticking with the solid Triump discs. They callipers cost £240 per pair, plus pads. I am getting mine through Martin Bell at the kitcarworkshop - highly recommended to me. Lobbying Caterham for a new badge.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinS Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 Hi, When you guys change the calipers, do you also tend to change the flexible brake hose at the same time to keep it new and fresh? M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Biddle Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 I've got the Hi Spec 4 pot ultralites with a 280MM grooved solid disc mounted on an aluminium bell centre. Very powerfull, very controlable braking, and 1KG lighter than the standard solid disc set up. Fits under 13" rims. Strongly recommended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordy Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 can you keep the standard discs with the Hispec ultralite? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrino Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 can you keep the standard discs with the Hispec ultralite?Yes Lobbying Caterham for a new badge.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbutnotslow Posted February 22, 2005 Author Share Posted February 22, 2005 Martin, No need to change the flexible hoses unless they are showing signs of deterioration, but very worthwhile upgrading to stainless steel braided if you have rubber ones anywhere on the system. Much firmer pedal feel. Grant Black and stone chip and currently not going ☹️ here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 If you are looking for a simple bolt on solution DON'T go the Wilwood route. It requires machining the hub. The tie rod ends rub also. So they were replaced. I went the for the larger, ventilated discs. By the time it was all finished weight savings was minimal. What I lost on the calipers, I gained on the discs. If I were doing it again, I would probably go the James Whiting route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Gregory Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 Why are you changing the discs & calipers?? What tyres are you running, can you lock the front wheels with your existing set-up? All the Academy, Grads & RoadSports B race cars have to use the standard brakes, choice of pad material is free, but I believe most go for Mintex M1144, 1155, 1166 or 1177 depending on personal preference. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgrigsby Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 I briefly ran Redstuff when I had a 155bhp Crossflow, they worked ok but just didn't last at all. I'm now using Pagid RS14's which have been superb. I've heard the RS15's are good as well as Mintex 1166 and 1177's. I had a set of Mintex 1142's that came with my uprated front brakes and they were hopeless!! Rob G www.SpeedySeven.com Edited by - rgrigsby on 22 Feb 2005 12:51:33 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Howe Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 As a quick and not expensive compromise, I fitted the Outlaw 2000 4 pot caliphers, which allowed me to retain the existing disks. Bought them from www.randallmotorsport.co.uk - their web site is not over helpful and more details can be found on http://www.outlawdiscbrakes.com/2000.html JH Deliveries by Saffron, the yellow 222bhp Sausage delivery machine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbo Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 John... are the outlaw lug or radial fittment. I knew you could get them for the direct M16 replacement but they don't fit to the caterham upright. Emerald Isle's 1st SV 148lbft @ 6091rpm/182bhp @ 6690rpm engineered for low revs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbo Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 Ferrino... are you running wide track.... if so make sure hispec know this re. hose specs. Emerald Isle's 1st SV 148lbft @ 6091rpm/182bhp @ 6690rpm engineered for low revs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrino Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 Cheers Timbo - I'm on standard track (unless some widetrack kit comes up for sale in the near future!). Lobbying Caterham for a new badge.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Day Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 A lot of people have kept the standard brakes & improved how they work by changing pads. Hawk carbon/metalic pads are also an alternative here With more agressive pads be prepared to consider the disc as a frequent consumer item; but at £15 a throw it's cheap-as-chips. When changing to the Alcon 4 pots from JW, new hoses are required as the connection to the caliper is different. I have the Alcon calipers & am very happy with the current Green Stuff pads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadership Team SLR No.77 Posted February 22, 2005 Leadership Team Share Posted February 22, 2005 Are the standard brakes improved by using the AP race master cylinder? Stu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Youngbutnotslow Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 Stu, I would have thought not. The race MC has a bigger piston diameter and therefore will move more fluid per mm of depression. Normally an up rated MC would be used when you employ larger Calliper pistons which will require more fluid movement in order to work. A standard MC would in theory needs to be depressed further to achieve the same result. Long pedal travel on brakes is often the result of a small diameter MC and large diameter pistons in the callipers. I am never sure that a set up like this is ever going to stop! Interestingly there were few Race MC's around when I used to build Escorts to rally back in the late 60' early 70's. The usual method was to go to a "good bloke" at a brake specialist and look for a range of MC's that had increasing piston size and try them out. The actuating rod and fork would be held in place by a circlip and as such could be changed over quite easily from one MC to another. Wow that brought memories back! Done it again Not "Young" but "Old" Matt - Son of Oldbutnotslow here Edited by - Youngbutnotslow on 22 Feb 2005 17:17:16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k8rum Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 Hi I asked the same question re. brakes as you did very recently & I have done a bit of research so far........ I run an uprated AP m/c ( = less pedal effort) brakes are still wooden with standard pads. I then contacted numerous different people. I am still awaiting a reply from John at Performance Braking despite sending photos /drawings etc of my current set up. Pagid pads will set you back at least £125 for the fronts & approx. £110 for rears + vat. I am reliably informed the Mintex are very suitable for track use esp. if you don't want to pay anywhere near the above prices. Norman advised me to keep clear of his set up due to machining of rims etc. So with a change of fluid to a real hi spec / my tarox discs /mintex pads I reckon job done. By the way checkout Hi Spec by going into google and adding review.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbo Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 ahhh ... forgot... very worthwhile checking out hispec 'review' *eek* Emerald Isle's 1st SV 148lbft @ 6091rpm/182bhp @ 6690rpm engineered for low revs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbutnotslow Posted February 22, 2005 Author Share Posted February 22, 2005 How do I find reviews on Google? I cant see it? Grant Black and stone chip and currently not going ☹️ here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Faulds Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 K8rum - I think you meant uprated MC = *more* pedal effort (assuming you're using the Caterham one anyway). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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