timbo Posted February 7, 2005 Share Posted February 7, 2005 New engine arrives shortly. For those on the modification route help/advise would be appreciated. Engine will be completely stripped to last nut and bolt. Bottom end will remain stock but with uprated main bearing shells, crank and pulley keyed. I will retain std rods but uprate big end bearings + ARP rod bolts. Crank ladder will use ARP bolts and nuts Ok... so now it gets complicated. I believe the 2.3 comes with low compression pistons which I need to bin. Question: from what source should I find forged slipper pistons, and any idea of cost? Next problem will be the compression and valve clearence with the new pistons. Can I presume the forged pistons will already be pocketed? Has anyone thought through this in terms of forged piston selection, permissible valve lift (camshaft choice) with the pistons and compression? (lots of questions there, guys) Head spec. Essentially I'll strip the head for porting. Retain std valves. Looking for possibly a 270 spec cam kit with verniers .... not too extreme as car is for road use. Is this the most suitable cam choice? Essentially I'm aiming for about 250 break on Tbs. Emerald Isle's 1st SV 148lbft @ 6091rpm/182bhp @ 6690rpm engineered for low revs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonbell Posted February 7, 2005 Share Posted February 7, 2005 Tim I`m pretty sure the forged pistons are already pocketed Simon Bell - Caterham 7 Duratec R I`ve seen the future.....and it`s powered by duratec Check out the website here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
normalbloke.29 Posted February 7, 2005 Share Posted February 7, 2005 Keep the low compression pistons,fit a turbo........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonbell Posted February 7, 2005 Share Posted February 7, 2005 £525 plus theft from Minister Simon Bell - Caterham 7 Duratec R I`ve seen the future.....and it`s powered by duratec Check out the website here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Beaumont Posted February 7, 2005 Share Posted February 7, 2005 Don't suppose you want my set of unused ARP rod bolts Timbo? Cheep. I too am shooting for a road friendly 250bhp and have settled on the Kent 270 cams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbo Posted February 7, 2005 Author Share Posted February 7, 2005 luke... cheep as in the sound a bird makes, or cheep as in cheap? Might well be interested. email me off line Emerald Isle's 1st SV 148lbft @ 6091rpm/182bhp @ 6690rpm engineered for low revs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Mupferit Posted February 7, 2005 Share Posted February 7, 2005 Mine has got the uprated bottom end and Omega pistons which, I believe, were already pocketted. For the top end, I have just changed the cams and vernier chain wheels at present, leaving me something to do for upgrading in subsequent winters. I am expecting 220-225 ish to start with. Brent 2.3 DURATEC SV. Gad these things are expensive ❗ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonbell Posted February 7, 2005 Share Posted February 7, 2005 That`s why I`ve gone 2 litre...........always the option to upgrade to 2.3 later 😬 Simon Bell - Caterham 7 Duratec R I`ve seen the future.....and it`s powered by duratec Check out the website here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeE Posted February 7, 2005 Share Posted February 7, 2005 Simon, that's a good and a bad thing, after onyl 1,300 miles I'm finding it really hard to resist the temptation to upgrade 😳 R400 Duratec 230bhp Build and Modification Pictures here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted February 7, 2005 Share Posted February 7, 2005 Simon Or stick steel crank, rods, forged pistons, big valves, cams and rev it to 9,000rpm + as a 2 litre 😬 The rods and pistons are in stock. Just waiting for the crank. 😬 AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonbell Posted February 7, 2005 Share Posted February 7, 2005 First upgrade will be head and cams.................then we`ll start saving Simon Bell - Caterham 7 Duratec R I`ve seen the future.....and it`s powered by duratec Check out the website here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dobuy Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 Timbo, Cheapest for pistons and rods is SBD http://www.sbdev.co.uk/Main.htm Pistons are £400, made by Omega, pocketed and available Rods are £640, not sure who makes them but lovely quallity, Raceline and SBD reckon they are easily as good as Arrow and they include big-end bolts in the price. AMMO for head work, crank mods and engine bolts would be a good choice Duratec Se7en SV, built in Dubai, pics here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbo Posted February 8, 2005 Author Share Posted February 8, 2005 Cheers Dobuy. Do you know the compression conversion of these pistons? Emerald Isle's 1st SV 148lbft @ 6091rpm/182bhp @ 6690rpm engineered for low revs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dobuy Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 AFAIK the pistons are the same for the 2.0 and the 2.3, however, at least for a 2.3 application they require a little machining of the piston crown to set the correct compression. Ironically I am sourcing mine through Raceline (via SBD who get them made). I have asked for 11.75:1 Steve Broughton at SBD or Peter at Raceline can help you with deciding what CR to use. I take it you are not changing the rods, I thought of doing this initially, however, AMMO, et Al., suggested against it, as the longer throw of the 2.3 puts a bit of strain on the rods. Revs being the killer. Anything over 7000 rpm on a 2.3 with standard rods would not be a good idea. Duratec Se7en SV, built in Dubai, pics here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dobuy Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 Oh yeah and I am using 280 spec cams, pistons are pocketed and can take more extreme cams than this, so 270 will be fine. Duratec Se7en SV, built in Dubai, pics here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbo Posted February 9, 2005 Author Share Posted February 9, 2005 NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!! don't tell me I now need to change the rods? 😳 Emerald Isle's 1st SV 148lbft @ 6091rpm/182bhp @ 6690rpm engineered for low revs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 I've yet to build a 2.3 with stock rods. Don't like the idea much. As the pistons have to be changed it seems daft not to put rods in at the same time. All th 2.3s I have built have had Omega pistons and Arrow rods and have been 250 bhp + engines. The Arrow rods are more expensive but much better quality than anything else in my opinion. I have only ever used Arrow or Carrillo rods and Omega or Cosworth pistons. Never had any problems with these so I am not about to change now. If you were looking for lowish bhp 2.3 you can use the stock rods, ARP bolts and 2 litre pistons which have a flat top. These are about £50.00 each and have to be modified for valve cutouts at a cost of £125.00 from Raceline. I personally cannot be bothered to jig up to do this as I usually end up convincing people to go for both the pistons and rods. It's insurance that allows everybody to sleep well at night. Stock 2 litre pistons are £400.00. Modified Omega pistons to suit the 2.3 are available at £440.00 + VAT. Arrow rods are £795.00. AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeE Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 OK I can't resist the temptation any longer - Ammo as you probably know I have a Raceline 2.0l 230bhp Duratec in an R400 and this has been up and running for 6 months now. I would like to upgrade to a 2.3l 250bhp+ Duratec running forged pistons and rods, and with a ported head. So I have all the ancillaries and don't need to worry about SVA requirements, I just need the necessary 2.3l base engine plus mods. Is it possible for you to give me a ball-park quote for supplying and building the base engine? cheers R400 Duratec 230bhp Build and Modification Pictures here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 Mike I can probably do some sort of deal against your 2 litre engine. I have to see what parts and ancillaries you can still use from the 2 litre to quote a price. Why don't you give me a call? 01394 383499 / 07860 494064 AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Mupferit Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 You know it makes sense Mike. 😬 Brent 2.3 DURATEC SV. Gad these things are expensive ❗ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeE Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 Brent - agreed it's got to be done Is your build complete yet? I'd like to come over and take a look when convenient - let me know. cheers R400 Duratec 230bhp Build and Modification Pictures here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Mupferit Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 About 95% complete Mike. As expected I am still awaiting a few vital components from our friends in Normandy with numerous promised dates having gone by now. 😬 Come round any time you like, I will be in tomorrow evening or Saturday afternoon. Have you still got my mobile number? Brent 2.3 DURATEC SV. Gad these things are expensive ❗ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbo Posted February 9, 2005 Author Share Posted February 9, 2005 are the omega forged pistons floating small end? Emerald Isle's 1st SV 148lbft @ 6091rpm/182bhp @ 6690rpm engineered for low revs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Walker Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 Timbo, Strickly speaking its not the Piston that determines a floating little end its the small end of the rod. The Omegas can be fitted to the stock rod using an interference fit or you can hone out the little end and have it floating. The stock rods do not look very strong especially on the longer stroked 2.3 IMHO. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 Stock rods are for stock engines that make 145 bhp. You can get away with stock rods in the 2 litre for around 220 bhp. Anything more than that and I stick steel rods in. Not worth taking a nice piston like the Omega and messing around with interference fit in the stock rod or honing the stock rod. I believe the stock rod is made of sintered material. It is not meant for high performance use, so why use it in this application? In certain instances we are talking about doubling the power output. Doesn't seem wise to me to use the stock rod. On the other hand if one of you gentlemen would like to try it out and prove me wrong ............ 😬 AMMO Edited by - AMMO on 9 Feb 2005 18:52:19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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