1800 or 2000 Zetec?

[philwaters]

Can anyone out there shed any light of the differences between the two engine sizes?

 

I am gearing up to replace my X/flow and with no real difference in cost between the two I am trying to decide which to go for. As I see it: 1800 will give around 150bhp verses 160bhp for the 2.0l. Insurance will be less for the 1.8 also - but not too worried about that.

 

What I am really interested in is how the two drive. I will initially be running it in standard tune. Is there a difference in the way the two engine rev or respond to tuning (I am planning the next stage for the following year)?

 

One last thing - any suggestions to how/where to sell my current 1600 x/flow? It is standard so would make a good starting point for a 17 or 1800 x/flow.

 

Phil Waters

The car in front must be less in control teeth.gif

[allen]

FWIW, Phil, secondhand 1800s are easier and cheaper to get hold of cos there are more about.

 

40DCOEs suit the 1800 better than the 2 litre.

 

If running in standard trim, standard 1800 flywheel is much lighter than 2litre.

 

Oh, and waterpump spins in the right direction.

 

AFAIK all tuning items can be applied to the 1800 and 2litre alike.

 

The extra 200cc would be nice, and if I had been offered a 2litre at the right time at the right price I'd have had one, but settled for the 1800 and am very pleased with it.

 

Regards,

 

allen

[philwaters]

Hi Allen,

 

Am going for a new engine and bits, mostly from Raceline and Jame Whiting, so number of 1800 verses 2000 isn't a worry.

I take you point about the 40 Carbs though. Raceline supply a lighened flywheel with either engine as well.

 

Phil Waters

The car in front must be less in control teeth.gif

[oilyhands]

At all levels the torque from the 2 litre will be better which will help with the drivability, the bore stroke ratio is also better with the 2 litre, which ultimately will be an advantage.

 

Given a blank sheet and no cost disadvantage you'd be bonkers *not* to choose the 2 litre.

 

Oily

[I.Mupferit]

Phil,

 

I agree with Oily, if you are buying new then 'no contest', go for the 2L every time.

I sold my 1700 X/F thro' CCC, had loads of enquiries even 1 from Malta some 6 weeks after the ad. appeared! Difficult to suggest an asking price for a standard 1600, but mine went for £500 minus carbs., alternator, starter motor, thermostat housing or exhaust primaries (sold separately in Low Flying).

 

I didn't actually get any replies at all for the engine itself from Low Flying, probably because most people with X/F Caterhams are doing likewise and eventually upgrading.

 

Brent

 

PS Let me know if you need any help with the swap.

 

Edited by - BRENT CHISWICK on 21 Sep 2001 11:46:38

[philwaters]

Hi Brent,

So 2.0l it seems to be then, I'll just have to put up with the extra power. I was mostly enquiring in case the 1.8 has a more revy nature that might make it more desirable, but it seems not.

 

Thanks for the offer of help - no doubt I will need to pick your brains over the next few months if you don't mind. I have decided, as I believe you did, to use the Weber 3D ignition - was this easy to fit? Did you need to get anything to go with it - coil etc?

 

Phil Waters

The car in front must be less in control teeth.gif

[I.Mupferit]

Phil,

 

You won't need anything else to go with the Weber Alpha 3D, it all comes complete with loom. You will, however, need an electric fuel pump though.

The actual 'box of tricks' is quite large so mounting under the dash as they recommend is pretty much a no, no with the 7. I had a purpose made bracket and cover made up out of aluminiun and sat it next to the heater in front of the scuttle, on the passenger side.

Also you will need a Weber 'under-carb' throttle linkage assembly as the carbs. will be closer together than on the X/Flow. Go for the double cable one for added reliability.

Definitely don't get the 'over-carb' assembly as the quadrant can tend to ratchet up on the bonnet louvres and get stuck in the open position. Very nasty!

You will also need to remove the web between inlet ports 1,2 & 3,4 on the inlet manifold in order to clear the throttle linkage.

 

If I can think of anything else, I will mail you later.

 

 

Brent

 

PS Just remembered, the coil is the standard Ford item which bolts to a bracket on the back of the cylinder head. Get the Raceline bracket if you can...... Much sexier than the Ford piece of pressed tin!

 

Edited by - BRENT CHISWICK on 21 Sep 2001 13:53:36

[allen]

Phil, when you said standard tune I thought you ment as Henry Ford intended, not standard as in Raceline/James Whitingteeth.gif

 

Regards,

 

allen

 

Enjoy!

[philwaters]

Arr Sorry Allen, my mistake then - I'm sure Ol' Henry would approve of the Raceline/JW much more wink.gif

 

Phil Waters

The car in front must be less in control teeth.gif

 

Edited by - philwaters on 21 Sep 2001 15:07:42

[J.R.]

Phil

 

I started racing with a standard 1800 (105PS cams) & then moved on to the 2 litre (130PS cams)mid season. The 2 litre is definitely quicker but does not feel so zingy & rewarding due to the greater torque spread. On balance I got more satisfaction on the road with the 1800.

 

The 2 litre on standard 130ps cams gave 133 bhp at the wheels, the guy I sold the 1800 to has fitted 2002 cams & got 135 bhp at the wheels!

 

You wont be dissapointed with either.

 

Ihave now fitted a Blackbird & it makes both the zetecs feel like underpowered boat anchors.

[Fast Westie]

Phil

Don't bother with a new engine, it will take 6000 miles to loosen up. Get one with 20-40k on it.

 

A good mod is a steel flywheel since the standard one is pretty heavy.

 

I have a Raceline water rail in the road car, but that is only for clearance. You can use the James Whiting one or the Raceline one.

 

The other thing it is work thinking about is to go straight to throttle bodies. It would have only cost £500 more when I did mine and the drivability is so much better than with carbs.

 

The car in front is a Westfie1d wink.gif

[The Pied Piper]

Phil,

 

I built my 7 using a 2 ltr Zetec, had the head ported by Raceline, Raceline lightweight flywheel, water rail, and sump. All superbly made parts. Used 45mm Jenvey throttle bodies, DTA ecu, Raceline 4:1 manifold and system all in stainless. I found Raceline to be an excellent company to deal with and they are very helpful with advise etc. I originally bought some Kent cams as well but when I got the thing up and running I was so impressed with the performance on the standard cams that I left them in and sent the others back to Raceline! The engine revs really sweetly, using up to a self imposed 7500rpm limit (programmable in the ECU.) and the performance was similar to a Vauxhall HPC on 45's, more revvy but with a bit less torque lower down. If your'e interested contact "JulianS" who now owns this 7, you'll find him on other threads on this site.

 

Regards,

 

Martin

[julians]

Yes, I own the car that martin built, I've not contributed to this thread because I wasnt involved in the decision to put either an 1800 or 2litre in the car.

 

It does go well though, sees off most other caterhams at track days that I've been to, not necesarily through straight line speed, but it seems to handle well too. How heavy is the zetec compared to the K?

 

 

[kenny.]

I can concur with Julians.....I drove his car when it was Martins on the track. After a few laps I was beating my best times posted in my HPC (the HPC is no slouch and had a few class wins under its belt). The HPC has all the usual mods. i.e adj. dampers, advised spring rates and bars plus 40bhp more, and on 13" wheels etc.

The Zetec car was just that much better balanced than VX that its lack of low down grunt was more than compensated for by it's handling, it also revved so freely up to its soft cut out.......and it was on standard billies and springs and 15" wheels...a real eye opener!!!!!

 

Kenny HPC

 

 

 

Edited by - kenny on 22 Sep 2001 11:09:08