Newbie question alert: Roadsport vs Superlight

[CHip]

As a complete newbie to the world of se7ens, I have a couple of questions:

 

What are the fundamental differences between Roadsports and Superlights?

 

Is it possible to start with a Roadsport (or Classic) and upgrade to the equivalent spec of a Superlight?

 

How difficult is a self build? How long do they take?

[Paul Bowden]

You can upgrade from a road sport to a SL , but it is far more expensive than buying a SL to start.

 

Differences:- the original SL has widetrack suspension, carbon wings and nose cone, LSD, six speed box, super sport engine upgrade, (1.6K) carbon dash, uprated brakes, Tillet seats, not much in the way of interior comfort( no carpets, heater etc) aero screen, think that is about it

 

R300 has 1.8 engine, no LSD and no carbon rear wings.

 

A lot of these things can and will have been spec’d in or out on individual cars , for example a lot of SL's have windscreens.

 

Self build is a piece of Pi*s, I did , so any one can. Took me 2 weeks, full time. Some take a lot longer some a lot quicker

 

 

Paul

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by - Paul Bowden on 29 Jan 2005 20:36:04

[Richard Price]

To answer the other questions:-

How difficult is a self build?

It depends on your technical ability and if you have any able helpers (you'll find able and not so able helpers will appear from nowhere when you start asking questions here!)

How long do they take?

My 2002 RoadSport took 65 hours spread over ten days, with minimal outside assistance. I'd spent time looking at various peoples build web diaries and I'd read the assembly guide through several times before my kit arrived. Caterham included a list of the items they'd failed to supply, but not a list of the things they didn't know they hadn't supplied! (but that's all part of the adventure!)

[Richard Price]

Paul,

If I'd known you were going to go back and edit your post, I wouldn't have bothered ❗

[Paul Bowden]

If I'd known you were gong to answer I would not have bothered to edit my post 😬 As I said if I can build one anyone can.....I did not know where the spark plugs were until Mr Price put me straight

[RobM]

As has been said already, it is often far cheaper to buy another car than upgrade! My advice would be to have a ride in a few sevens before making a buying decision (they're all different!), and then trade up as money allows in the future.

 

- How can such a cute looking car sound so ferocious! -

[Dirty Den]

If the Superlight "badge" isn't important to you, then I'd strongly advise looking at ex-race cars. I've got a RoadSport Class A car, which despite the name, is not far off being a Superlight.

 

In common with a Superlight, the RoadSport A has a 6 speed box, LSD, wide track suspension and the SuperSport engine upgrade as standard, plus they often have other toys. Mine now has a carbon-fibre aeroscreen, tillets plus other goodies that would have been cost options on the Superlight. OK, I don't have CF wings or the nosecone, but you can easily buy those with cash saved.

 

There's been a few RoadSport As in "For sale" lately.

 

Den

[CHip]

I'm currently thinking about doing the academy next year, I was wondering what the upgrade paths were like (especially if I look at going for Roadsport B in 2007).

 

I don't have any engineering experience (except lego and meccano as a kid). I was originally thinking about getting it factory built or built by someone like Team Parker Racing, but since I started reading Blatchat, the idea of self build is beoming more appealing.

[david nelson]

The main diffrences have been said but the road sport comes with a 3.9 diff and the SL 3.62 diff

 

I am unsure what a roadsports A diff is.

 

When it comes to selling the SL should hold its price better. I think the Roadsport A is good but some people will be turned of it as it an ex-race car.

 

 

David

 

 

 

David

[RobM]

Bear in mind that racing does require a fair bit of mechanical know how. I don't race a Caterham, so I can't comment on that specifically, but my racing Metro needs a lot of attention - I've had the engine out 4 times in as many years! I don't think there's a single but or bolt that I haven't dealt with.. that's just racing - everything gets renewed regularly.

 

Race cars do vary - some can be in lovely condition. My racing Metro is absolutely immaculate - I spend hours and hours on it every weekend and evenings - to the same degree as my cherished road going Caterham is. Den (aka Dirty Den) has an ex Roadsport A car that was run by a professional outfit, and it is in lovely condition. Den looked at a good few race cars before finding his - so there are good ones out there if you look. I've had a brief drive of Den's car and it felt very good indeed.

 

- How can such a cute looking car sound so ferocious! -

[Dirty Den]

and it felt very good indeed

Thanks Rob

 

Den

 

http://www.dens7.co.uk

[GTD]

CHip - the upgrade from Academy to Roadsport B or Roadsport B inters is pretty minimal stuff largely rear roll bar, wide track. You will find if you self build that you will still need Caterham or a race specialist to do certain things for you such as weighing the car and doing a flat floor setup.

 

I'd also advise you going to meet and look at some similar race cars to pick up on some non standard build tips (e.g. re-route the intertia switch to somewhere accessible by the driver etc etc)

 

G for Geoff

[KevSull Too]

Den, you miss the point!

If the Superlight "badge" isn't important to you

If the badge is not important, why not buy a locost or a Westfield?

I'd always be nervous if I bought an ex race car, you could never be sure what it had been through before you got it. I saw a video shown by Andy Noble at the Wotton Hatch and there were some horrific accidents (everyone walked away though) where cars looked fit for the scrapyard, they get fixed and sold to people wanting to save a bit of cash.

 

The Suprelight will work out cheaper as it will hold its value better, comes with all the toys you need and is set up perfectly for the road. Whereas you may have problems selling an ex race car, you can never be sure what it's been through, you'll need to get it set up for the road and you will probably have to spend extra cash on it when bits fall off.

 

In my opinion the Superlight is one of the classics in the making, and will demand a premium over the more common models going forward.

 

No matter how hard you try, a Roadsport will always be a Roadsport, it'll never be a Suprelight!

[Dirty Den]

Hi Kev -

 

I don't think I missed the point - perhaps have different priorities to you. Whilst I agree with you that the Superlight is going to become a classic given time, I think race cars (provided you do your homework and buy a good one) represent great value for money.

 

I picked up a year old RoadSport A for the same money as a five year old Superlight. I did my home work (rang Arch, got the car looked over etc) and I'm very pleased with the car that I have. It's ideally setup for the track and I don't mind the compromises that come as a result when driving it on the road.

 

I do think that there's a lot of "ex-race car scaremongering" that goes on. Look at Rob and Steve Foster as cases in point - both have cars they have raced and both are meticulously maintained - more so than many road going cars. Whereas a road going car may see a service once a year, my ex-race car saw one for every race meeting and is hardly "scrap yard" material

 

Yes, my car was involved in racing incident. It also went back to Arch for the work to be done. How's that different to a road going 7 that has been involved in a smack and has had a new front put on?

 

I'm not trying to claim that my car is a "Superlight" - merely suggesting that you can have an equivalent specification (and in some ways, more) car for less money if you look beyond a plaque on the dash. I guess it's different strokes for different folks.

 

Den

 

http://www.dens7.co.uk

 

Edited by - Dirty Den on 31 Jan 2005 10:42:51

[CHip]

Leaving aside the resale value and badge-as-a-status-symbol discussion for a moment, in terms of ride and handling - and enjoyment on the road - is there much to seperate a race engineered Roadsport A and a Superlight?

 

I'm guessing a race spec Roadsport will have a firmer (less comfortable) ride and quicker (more twitchy) handling than a road spec Roadsport or Superlight, would I be right in that assumption?

 

I had assumed that buying a new academy car and entering the academy series would be the best introduction to sevens and racing. Would I be better off buying a secondhand race spec car and entering a different race series?

 

Edited by - CHip on 31 Jan 2005 12:41:17

[Stuart Faulds]

KevSull, your implication that race teams bodge accident damaged cars back together and sell them on cheap is nonsense. While cosmetics might not be highly valued by racers, the integrity of the chassis and mechanicals are of paramount importance.

[CHip]

BTW Dirty Den, who or what is Arch?

[Dirty Den]

CHip -

 

Arch are the company who make the actual chassis for the Seven. If you are interested, there's some photos on my website from a recent visit there (IIRC, Angus and Tessa also have pictures on their excellent website - do a search for a post by them).

 

Handling wise, most race cars are stiffly sprung. Mine is very much so and doesn't so much 'ride' bumps on the road but 'jump' them. On really bad roads, it feels like you have to work the car hard, but I was used to that having come from a live axle car with awful Michelins beforehand. The turn in on my current car is fantastic and it feels very composed indeed, until you start running over bad surfaces.

 

If you want to race, then it may be that the Superlight is not the best car for you - you could almost take the viewpoint that it's too nice to race - I do agree with Kev that it's a classic in the making . You might find that you'll want to change the car to get it to the equivalent of a race version.

 

One other thing and I might be wrong on this, but I don't think a Superlight has a dry sump system as standard - I believe all RoadSport As do. If you are going racing, then I'd certainly try to get a dry sumped car.

 

Den

 

http://www.dens7.co.uk

[CHip]

What's a dry sump system, and why does it matter? (I did warn you I was a numpty when it came to car mechanics)

[stephen grant]

I'm with Den on this. I also picked up a Roadsport 'A' that had been raced for a couple of years and, having had it thoroughly checked over and been given a clean bill of health by James Whiting, I don't regret going this route. Mine used to be run by Team Parker. They are a reputable outfit and I figured that the chances of them running a car with a bent chassis were zero. Of course the bodywork isn't going to be shiny, but you can buy a lot of shiny bodywork with the money that you've saved and with a Caterham it's relatively easy to get under the car and check the general condition before you buy. I think the basic point is that you get a lot of car for your money if you are less fussed about the presentation of the bodywork and that a decent team looks after their cars probably at least as much as the majority of non-race owners.

 

However, mine came with an Apollo anti-cavitation tank, but definately isn't dry sumped, and it's news to me if Roadsport 'A's were dry-sumped???

 

stephen

 

 

Edited by - stephen grant on 31 Jan 2005 13:33:03

[Stuart Faulds]

From this year all Roadsoprt A's *must* be dry-sumped. Until now it's been an option.

[GTD]

 

 

CHip - a dry sump means that the sump (bucket of oil) at the bottom of the engine is replaced by a system that pumps the oil round, scavenging it as soon as it reaches the bottom of the engine and taking it back up to the top. Reduces the oil capacity by c. 3 litres. Look back in the archives for more technical views - mine's strictly just above numpty!

 

For novice racing, it doesn't matter that much - it is illegal in Academy cars, and prob RS B, though I don't know the latter for sure. Academy cars come with an Appollo tank. This is a conical tank shaped like a thermos flask that sits in the oil system and allows the oil to swirl round, losing any air that has built up inside the oil. This menas that on track your expensive engine is at least using proper oil, not froth! For road use it doesn't really matter, but on a track an Appollo is pretty essential.

 

In terms of the 'don't buy a race car thing' I think it is largely nonsense. My car gets serviced way more than a road car. It's set up is far better than any road going 7 I have driven - and rather than being more 'twitchy', a race car should be far mored planted and predictable. If the previous racer was someone who liked the tail out approach, then when you buy it ask them to set it to it's wet race settings - it'll all be adjustable suspension and roll bars - and this will give you a more forgiving set up immediately and base for you to experiment.

 

G for Geoff

 

Edited by - GTD on 31 Jan 2005 13:49:50

[Dirty Den]

CHip,

 

Just to add to what Geoff said (and this is also a mechnical numpty comment ), the dry sump arrangement means that when you are cornering hard (especially with sticky rubber), you aren't going to suffer oil surge/low oil pressure. Due to the orientation of the engine in a 7, there's a possibility that the oil can "slosh" over to one side and then you find the oil pump is trying to pump air instead of oil - it's all over the other side of the sump.

 

The dry sump ensures that the oil is pumped into the engine at a consistent pressure and that oil surge doesn't take place.

 

HTH,

 

Den

 

http://www.dens7.co.uk

[LazerBrain]

stephen grant said:

you get a lot of car for your money

 

Watch out Den, you have competition for the title "Ambassador of ex-racecars" 😬 😬

 

cheers,

 

Darren. (who doesn't have an ex-racecar, but did seriously consider a couple of ex-racecars.)

[CHip]

Thanks guys, any chance you can write a book of definitions like the dry sump one. It would make my life sooooo much easier, at least I would sound like I knew what I was talking about down the pub