MUST I get rid of the Michelins?

[Miura]

 

Newbie question:

 

looking at the archives there is a lot said about the 16' Michelin and nothing positive.

 

I have a 1.6K on 14' Michelin SX and was wondering "to I really have to get rid of those?"

Before you answer, I would like to add the following

 

- 100% road use at the moment on the dry

- would like to go on track in the spring but I lack confidence and need tuition (some of you probably remember my post "New 7 owner that can't drive - fantastic response to it by the way)

- on the wet, there is simply no traction, wheel spin in third on not even full throttle in a straight line

- they look nearly new but must be as old as the car (R Reg 11,000 miles)

 

- if I remove them from the 7, would they be any good on my 205 GTI 1.6?

 

last and most important:

 

 

- I have bought my 7 to learn proper driving gradually (will get cadence course in the spring, need to call them to discuss by the way). I am aware of my (lack of) ability but the question really is will I never learn the car / get the confidence if I keep the michelin?

 

 

I know that Tyres have been debated a lot and I do apologise It must be pretty boring for knowledgable people

 

Thanks in advance and hello to those I already know

[shn7]

All a question of degrees I suppose. As you want to learn the handling of the car then having low grip tyres means that you can do the learning at much lower and thus less dangerous speeds. Swapping to stickier tyres may only mean that you'll scare youself even more at higher speeds.

 

What the low grip tyres highlight is the need to drive very smoothly. This should always be the aim of any driver especially as you reach the limits of adhesion.

 

Suggest you make that call to Hugh at Cadence.

 

Ultimately you'll want to change the tyres but consider the above for the short term.

 

The most important thing is to be able to enjoy yourself .

 

Steve.

[John Howe]

Change the tyres...

 

JH

Deliveries by Saffron, the yellow 222bhp Sausage delivery machine

[simonbell]

These cars should never have had michelins...........what were they thinking

 

Basically the michelin as fiited as std is a road tyre for a std road car. Therefore the rubber is sufficiently hard to give good fuel economy and durability. With the se7en which is a lighter car you will wear these road tyres at an even slower rate, and because the car is light and the rubber is hard it is difficult to get much heat into them therefore they don`t offer much grip.

 

At the other end of the scale is the CR500 which is supposed to be desifgned with te se7en in mind and therefore one coudl assume the best tyre for the job. In practice it will depend on usage of the car and in what type of weather you use it.

 

If you want to be conservative then a good soft road tyre like a Yokohama A539 might be the way to go. Yokohama A021 would be the next choice to give a good all round tyre with plenty of grip. If mostly dry driving then A032`s or 48`s but it`s maybe best to explore your driving before getting into high levels of grip. You need to learn to control the car first and feel what its doing as its about to break loose.....to me that would mean fitting one of the less grippy options eg the A539.

 

 

Simon Bell - Caterham 7 Duratec R

I`ve seen the future.....and it`s powered by duratec Check out the website here

[jimmyslr]

I had Michlin Pilots on my first Caterham. I found them actively dangerous in damp/cold conditions. The car's lightness meant that there could be far far less grip that you might expect in non-dry conditions. Swap the tyres...Yoko 021s are a very sensible choice.

[Dickie Normuss]

Change them ❗

I changed mine and and the handling was transformed

 

Seek forgiveness, not permission.

 

Rules are for the interpretation of wise men and the obedience of fools.

[MikeW]

If the tyres are that old then I would change them as even with a harder tyre they do go off after a few years and it's the unpredicatbility rather than absolure grip that is the real killer. The suggestion of the Yoko A539 is probably a good way to go for what you have in mind.

With any tyre expect a lot of difference between wet and dry. Even with the CR500's it's easy to spin up in 3 rd witha very wet surface.

 

MikeW

Mega Grad

[Irrelevant]

The pilups I had were soooooo sh1te under breaking that I thought my brakes were shot. Changed to A048s and I was hanging off the belts under braking - a MASSIVE safety improvement.

 

No longer after a 3.14 diff.

[F355GTS]

Muira

 

As John says.....change the tyres......please

 

As far as track have you booked a place on the Academy days at Heyford, there are still places 0n 14th May

 

fwiw I'd also recommend the A539s for road use

 

Mark

[Joe 90]

If you can't stand to waste unworn tyres, change them for road use and then wear them out on the track. 😬

 

SEP field working, not spotted in 103,100 miles. Some photos on webshots, updated 21 Sept

[F355GTS]

Oliver

 

I don't think it's possible to wear them out no matter what you use them for 😬

 

Mark

[wonkey eyed barmaid]

"I lack confidence and need tuition.

- in the wet, there is simply no traction.

will I never learn the car / get the confidence if I keep the michelin?"

 

agree with the others RE the above points you made. change the tyres.

the reason being; if you lack confidence now, you are unlikely to gain that confidence having to deal with a snappy unpredictable tyre working against you.

on the other hand, the poor characteristics of this tyre will make you better in the long run, given enough time and a gentle learning curve -if you can keep it out of the hedges.

but i think keeping the michelins will dent your confidnece beyond repair if you have one too many 'moments'.

 

i had a set of these on my 7 for the first few months, and they were not ultimately THAT bad. even in the wet they can be driven at 'normal' car pace, but it does take finesse and a gentle right foot. and the tyre pressures are crucial! (17psi all round is an ok place to start)

 

get the tyre pressures correct. and persevere for a few more weeks, practicing being as smooth with all the controls as possible. you cant drive a 7 like a 205. (not trying to teach you to suck eggs)

 

but really, you are better off with some Yoko A539, or A021, and stick the michelins on a secondhand set of wheels for track/airfield days....

they will never wear out.

 

OR; they will probably be fine for your pug because a) its a heavier car, and b) it was designed for everyday driver and its not going to do anything scary (provided you dont have a habit of lifting off the throttle abruptly mid corner).

 

for yoko A539 try www.topgear.co.uk

and for yoko A021 try www.polleymotorsport.co.uk

[Trevor Newman]

Are these said Michelin tyres worse than the Avon CR322 fuel saver tyres on my car?

[duffym]

To follow on from Trevor's Q. I have 5 year old Yoko 520s are these better or worse than the 'Pileups'?

I have to change my driving style for the 7 but have had a few moments when it went sideways unexpectedly.

If the pileups are worse then change them before you run out of clean underpants! 😬

 

Zetec powered supersprint in brg waiting for spring

[Sheds Moderator]

I've never used Michelins but everyone here says they are terrible. They work well however on a heavier car like a 205.

 

I used to have Yoko 032s, they were good but wore out in seconds. I now have Bridgestone RE720s, they are less grippy than 032s but still a good tyre for the 7. I believe they are in the same category as Yoko 539.

 

021s are felt to be a good choice - if you do a lot of touring, say over 10k a year, then the wear rate may be a problem. If not, they are a good choice.

[Miura]

Thanks to you all, some useful answers as usual.

One last question for Grandteuk or anyone who has the answer:

 

can you confirm that 17psi is for the 14' Michelin. CC delivered the car to me with 20psi all round !?

[dave edwards]

tyre rubber deteriorates with age ...change them.

you may find your driving is better than you think once on new rubber.

nothing is more scary than unpredictability..you will learn quickly once the car does as you intend and you can relax behind the wheel.

 

Dave

[grumpy the 7th]

Muira

I don't know much 😳 but at 20psi you'll be bouncing around, lower them to 17psi for a starting point.

 

Mark F355GTS YHM

 

 

rog

C7 TNT - it's dynamite (Honda Irish Green and Peugeot Graphite grey )

 

[grumpy the 7th]

Mark

 

14th booked *thumbup* *thumbup*

 

 

rog

C7 TNT - it's dynamite (Honda Irish Green and Peugeot Graphite grey )

 

[mikes]

I actually changed to Pilots on Caterham's advice at one time, but now have the Bridgestones - all 14".

Although the Michelins were an improvement on the originals (what were they like I hear you say 😳) I found them to be completely non-progressive - one second you are fine and then 'snap' you are going backwards! Admittedly that was mostly on track and happened a lot under braking and may have more to do with my inability to read and control the car than anything else . But, the Bridgestones are much better, and the 021Rs much better still.

Knowing what I know now, I would change them.

Mike

[charlie_pank]

I started on Avon Fuel saving tyres and found the car swapping ends at the slightest provocation. I agree that the hard tyres will encourage smoothness in the long run, but the advantage of the AO21 s is that they let go gently, so rather than realising that you shouldn't have lifted off as you come to a rest backwards in a ditch (or oncoming traffic if you're on a left-hander), you realise that you shouldn't have lifted off as you apply some opposite lock to correct the slide. -it's not the overall stickiness that really makes the difference for me, it's the progressive nature of the tyre.

 

CHANGE THEM NOW!!!

[shn7]

Charlie,

 

You mean Kermit kept spinning on you . Never once happened to me

 

Steve.

[wonkey eyed barmaid]

@ trevor,

from what ive experienced the avon cr322 are equivalent to the michelins.

 

duffy,

yoko 520's should be ok. they were a sports orintated tyre when new (intended for hot hatchs)

 

miura,

tyre pressures are a personal preference - and you soon get to know what is too hard and too soft, depending on how the balance of the car changes, and what you feel more comfortable with.

start with 17psi all round. or even 16. its just a baseline.

 

you can then decrease or increase pressure 'slightly' (1-2 psi either way) to alter the balance front to rear. i also set the F/L tyre 1or2 psi softer than the F/R to help balance the front under hard braking and stop the f/l wheel locking too soon when im in the car on my own (more weight over the f/r tyre). (with 2 in the car this is not necessary)

 

if you want the car to inform you of its grip limitations a bit sooner, then try setting the front tyres 2-3 psi harder than the rears. they will relinquish thier grip into mild understeer, warning you to slow it down a bit.

 

once you are confident in the front end grip and are happy with the cornering speeds, try reducing the front tyre pressures, to be equal to or maybe slightly lower than the rears (keeping within 2-3 psi). this will make the back end a bit more playful.

 

just experiment. a good accurate guage is essential.

 

i think the most important thing though, is being smooth with all the controls. sharp inputs on any of the major controls upset the car, especially in the wet. be smooth.

a throttle should not be treated as ON or OFF. steering lock can be applied slightly earlier than necessary to initiate weight transfer onto the tyres, to settle the car before actually entering the corner.

 

enjoy learning. for me it was one of the most exciting parts of caterham ownership. (and is ongoing) my 7 was my first RWD experience other than a kart.

[charlie_pank]

Steve, yes. Only on track though thankfully. I think it may have been to do with those nasty tyres + passenger as they screw up the corner weight. Either way, I think I'm now far more confident and competent on the AO21s

[duffym]

Grantuk thanks , I have the pressures set at 18psi all round (on zetec powered de dion). I might have a play with the pressures having read your post.

Mark

 

Zetec powered supersprint in brg waiting for spring