Alex Wong1697456877 Posted September 14, 2001 Share Posted September 14, 2001 Having not thought it out completely, I had a bit of an adventure removing the diff. (Unbolting the A-frame whilst the car is lifted by the de-dion tube is not a good idea!!) Anyway, the A-frame, diff and prop shaft are out now. When I get the diff back, what's the best way of lifting the car and putting it all back in? Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Carmichael Posted September 14, 2001 Share Posted September 14, 2001 Attach engine crane to FIA roll over bar and elevate to convenient working height. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Walker Posted September 14, 2001 Share Posted September 14, 2001 Alex I just disconnected the radius arms this allowed the de dion tube to move clear then the diff can be removed. I also removed the boot floor to aid access. The bit I hate is getting all the shimming washers in place. Rob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Wong1697456877 Posted September 14, 2001 Author Share Posted September 14, 2001 Thanks - The washers just fell out when I took the diff out. What do I need to take into consideration with regard to where put them back? Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Wong1697456877 Posted September 14, 2001 Author Share Posted September 14, 2001 Also, I assume that it's best to put the diff and propshaft in as one. Can this go back in with the de dion tube in situ? Does undoing the radius arms give enough room to wiggle it in? I had to separate the two to get it out, but this is difficult to do with the propshaft trying to rotate all the time. Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted September 14, 2001 Share Posted September 14, 2001 Alex, The brakes will allow you to tighten the diff to prop bolts. Just put the whole lot together before you tighten these up and have someone handy to press the brake pedal. They are not that tight 45lb/ft from memory. Do soem press-ups and you'll be able to lift the diff into position by laying on your back with it on your chest. Then get someone else to insert the bolts (coppaslip on the long one helps immensely here)from above with the boot floor removed. Then remove the bolts one at a time and shim out the diff equidistant from the tubes linking fore and aft of the bottom of the wheelarches. Good luck, its a horrible job. Fat Arn See the R500 eater (happy now Richard??) with a Commagirl astride.....hereid=red> See the Lotus Seven Club 4 Counties Area Website hereid=green> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metal mickey Posted September 14, 2001 Share Posted September 14, 2001 Alex, if your stuck for an engine crane give me a bell. Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Walker Posted September 15, 2001 Share Posted September 15, 2001 Alex, The shims are there to space the diff within the chassis brackets centrally. Centrally being the crux, failure to get it central will result in vibrations being transmitted through the car. I recon its better to leave the prop in the car thereby doing away with the need to drain the Gbox, just push it forward slightly and tie it up out the way fit the diff then couple up the prop flange. Thats how I did mine. Don`t forget to replace the blue prop flange nuts and to loctite them on assembley Rob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Posted September 15, 2001 Share Posted September 15, 2001 Alex, just asking, as you´re car is quite similiar to mine, which differential did you fit now ? I´m still thinking about changíng mine. Marius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Wong1697456877 Posted September 16, 2001 Author Share Posted September 16, 2001 Thanks for all the advice. Marius, I don't want to replace mine, just have it checked over as it's getting very noisy. The propshaft is going off for rebuilding as well. Cheers, Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Posted September 16, 2001 Share Posted September 16, 2001 thumbsup.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Furst Posted September 17, 2001 Share Posted September 17, 2001 Alex, I put my car on axle stands (under the forward bush of the trailing arms) and then used a trolley jack to lift the diff in to place while inserting the bolts and washers. It is also worth having a long screwdriver or pry bar handy for easing the diff over when inserting the shims. I left the prop connected to the engine and held out the way with string or ty-raps. To do up the prop bolts to the correct torque use the hand-brake to stop the driveshafts turning. If you need help give me a shout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Bees Posted September 17, 2001 Share Posted September 17, 2001 Remember that the prop-to-diff bolts should not be re-used. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miraz Posted September 17, 2001 Share Posted September 17, 2001 I've just discovered that it can be done single handed by bringing your knees up to your chest and balancing the diff on your shins, leaving your hands free to play with the measuring tape, bolts, pliers, screwdrivers, washers and inspection light as required. Not sure that I'd recommend this as the best way of doing it though... Miraz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pie_boy69 Posted September 18, 2001 Share Posted September 18, 2001 I know that its to late to tell you this Alex but for any one else taking there diff out as you pulleach bolt out collect the washer and cable tie them to the coresponding chassis hole then when you come to put the diff back in cut of the washer and lay them out in a sensible order so they all go back on the right bolts then diff goes in the same way it came out. Sorry if this sounds contrasending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Wong1697456877 Posted September 18, 2001 Author Share Posted September 18, 2001 Lesson learnt this time. Incidentally, I always thought I had an AP Suretrack diff but it's actually a ZF plate type diff. Steve Perks at SPA tells me that this is preferable anyway. What's the diference? Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Bees Posted September 18, 2001 Share Posted September 18, 2001 The Suretrak uses a system of gears (damned clever things, gears) to direct the most drive to the wheel with the most grip. The plate-type simply uses clutch-type plates to limit the amount of slip. One could suppose that theoretically the Suretrak is better since it doesn't interfere with what the diff is actually trying to do under normal cornering circumstances (i.e. allow one wheel to turn faster than the other) whereas the plate-type will always transmit more torque to the slower-turning wheel which tends to encourage understeer. In practice AFAIK all the race boys have switched back to the ZF plate type, AIUI mainly because it doesn't go "open" when one wheel is airborne. I believe that the Quaife torque-sensing diff doesn't go open like the Suretrak (RIP) one does. I'm very happy with my Suretrak. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Carmichael Posted September 18, 2001 Share Posted September 18, 2001 The Superlight racers were in the habit of bouncing a wheel in the air over the kerbs. The Suretrak was allowing the airborne wheel to spin up. With >180bhp and big wide slicks, the shock load into the drivetrain when the wheels next made contact with terra firma was stripping the teeth off fifth gear on the six speed gearbox. With the plate diff this won't happpen unless you get both wheels in the air and the shock load will consequently be less to each wheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted September 18, 2001 Share Posted September 18, 2001 Help me out here chaps.......stop groaning..... ....AIUI mainly because it doesn't go "open" when one wheel is airborne. How does the unloaded wheel "know" it's airborne. Sureley the diff just sees a wheel with less/more speed/torque, and adjusts accordingly. If it's a question of torque, then at what point does the diff go openquestion.gif It must be possible for the diff to go open before the wheel is airborne. Is it a designed in feature, or a consequence of the design, and unavoidablequestion.gif As it doesn't appear to be a desirable effect, why haven't they improved upon the designquestion.gif And Mike........I did think of some aerodynamic benefit re the diffuser. It stops loads of air getting in the space of the tank/boot/rear body section. It might even reduce rear end lift/drag........slightly..........er...........wink.gif Edited by - Blatman on 18 Sep 2001 19:56:43 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelspeed Posted September 18, 2001 Share Posted September 18, 2001 > I believe that the Quaife torque-sensing diff doesn't go open like the > Suretrak (RIP) one does. We had a torsen diff (that's the Quaife one isn't it?) in our historic mini cooper last year. When we lifted an inside wheel out of a tight hairpin all the drive went to that wheel and we went nowhere. This year we're running a plate type diff from gripper. We get great drive out of hairpins. Bad news is that it's an absolute nightmare on the straights, pulls like a..... pully thing. Put us in a ditch for a couple of minutes on the only straight over Eppynnt in August. Oh, and if the scrutineers lurking, then yes of course they had torsen diffs in 1967. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Bees Posted September 20, 2001 Share Posted September 20, 2001 Blatman - you're reasoning & questions make sense to me (I've been through the same thought process) but I don't know the answer... Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted September 20, 2001 Share Posted September 20, 2001 Blimey......... I finally ask a sensible question...........wink.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miraz Posted September 20, 2001 Share Posted September 20, 2001 Some decent explanations here..... http://www.howstuffworks.com/differential6.htm - Plate-type diffs http://www.howstuffworks.com/differential8.htm - Torsen diffs Miraz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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