Nifty Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 I currently have a bog standard 1400 Supersport, which I believe is EU2. I've been offered a very good deal on a 1600 Supersport engine that I believe is EU3. As far as I'm aware there is no ECU included in the package. However, that is not important because I intend to strip the engine and rebuild it with throttle bodies etc and fit an Emerald ECU. My question is whether there is any reason why an EU3 engine or Emerald ECU will be incompatible with my EU2 loom. (I do know that a conversion needs to be made to fit an EU3 loom to an Emerald). Having just rebuilt the car I don't really want to set about ripping the loom out again if I don't need to. I hope this makes sense but I'm completely ignorant when it comes to ECUs, mapping etc!! Keep off the straight and narrow 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbo Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 The EU3 engine will run wasted spark as opposed to a distributor on the end of the cam. The EU3 runs a large connector off the ignition modules for which you'll need an EU3 loom connector to be compatable. The EU3 ECU loom connector is not compatable with the Emerald... the EU2 ECU connection fits directly onto the Emerald, though a small number of wiring mods must be done. Essentially when I made up my loom for the M3Dk on an EU3 engine I used an EU2 loom and made modifications to the igntion/coils circuit, lambda etc by integrating parts of an EU3 loom. Its not rocket science... you just need to identify the additional 'senders/functionallity' on the EU3, and wire to the emerald to suit. Emerald Isle's 1st SV 148lbft @ 6091rpm and 182bhp @ 6690rpm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nifty Posted January 18, 2005 Author Share Posted January 18, 2005 Can I presume these modifications can be made in the engine bay without taking the scuttle off or loom out? Keep off the straight and narrow 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nifty Posted January 18, 2005 Author Share Posted January 18, 2005 Further questions... What is the benefit of wasted spark over distributor ? Could I put my current distributor onto the 1600 engine..i.e. convert it from EU3 to EU2? Keep off the straight and narrow 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbo Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 Ideally you'll want to make the modifications while the loom is out as the loom will need unsheathed for access to make the necessary wiring modifications. You don't need to take the chassis loom out at all and or even make any modifications to it (bar shift light signal etc if you wish). What you're dealing with here is only the engine loom. This is disconnected from the chassis loom at the grey multiplug. I take it Nifty, your fitting a complete EU3 engine. If so you can't retro fit a distributor. The EU2 engine runs a lobe on the end of the cam to locate the distributor arm. On the EU3 engine the cams have solid ends and are blanked off by plates. In their place you'll run a cam phase sensor which along with the crank sensor provides the ecu with it''s timing signals. Benefits over EU2. Essentially the wasted spark runs batch sequential injection. It was primarily introduced to reduce emissions through improved injector timing and firing. In terms of overall power gains, I couldn't comment. Its simply a different injection sys. Emerald Isle's 1st SV 148lbft @ 6091rpm and 182bhp @ 6690rpm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Bell Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 I have an EU3 head sitting on my work bench at home - and I think that it should be possible to retro fit a distributor. But as timbo says, it isn't quite plug and play - you'll need a distributor spindle from Rover that spiggots into the end of the inlet cam. The spindle part number is RNJJ10001 "Bush-drive Spindle" - and costs about 24 quid + VAT. Other than that, it looks as though the EU3 head has the drillings to accept the dizzy... so with luck it will bolt straight on (at least I hope so, as this head is destined for my EU2 engine once I get it ported! ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbo Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 Rob, are you sure the EU3 head has the correct casting to mount(fix) the distributor unit. The inlet side casting only has the four holes to mount the blanking plate. Are these holes compatable with the distributor fixing points? Emerald Isle's 1st SV 148lbft @ 6091rpm and 182bhp @ 6690rpm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheds Moderator Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 Nifty, would it help you to fit the EU2 1.4 head and MEMS to the 1.6 engine? This is an easy way to 138bhp and leaves the way clear for TBs, Emerald etc as you wish. Or do you want to keep the engines separate so you have 1 running item spare? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Bell Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 Timbo, at this point in time I honestly cannot say. I've removed the blanking plate from the head and have a picture - I can't post the image here can I? I'll upload the image somewhere and let you know the URL. If anyone happens to have an old dizzy back plate lying around, could you let me know what the hole centre measurements are and I'll measure them up on the head and post them here... FWIW, there are only two tapped holes in the head... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Bell Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 Not sure that this code will work... but hopefully image shown below: http://www.mgcars.org.uk/carclub/mgfregister/temp/TF135_no_dizzy_drive.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Bell Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 Erm... no it didn't. URL of head is here: http://www.mgcars.org.uk/carclub/mgfregister/temp/TF135_no_dizzy_drive.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbo Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 Rob, sorry I mean't 2 holes....doh! I've an EU2 engine 7 sitting beside my EU3 engine 7.. can check this tonight Emerald Isle's 1st SV 148lbft @ 6091rpm and 182bhp @ 6690rpm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Englishmaninwales Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 I am confirm that the 2 EU3 cylinderhead drillings accept the dizzy backplate off my old 1400 ss. Malcolm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mav Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 Also be aware that the EU2 and EU3 have different mounting points for the cam belt tensioner... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oilyhands Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 It is easy to convert an EU2 to EU3 and vice versa, the castings are the same, you just need to drill and tap for the tensioner type, the distributor cap holes are already there and are used for a loom hang plate on the EU3, you will need an NJJ1001 spigot for the end of the crank, it's radial position is shown on my K series site. Oily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbo Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 So no need to check then... Emerald Isle's 1st SV 148lbft @ 6091rpm and 182bhp @ 6690rpm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Bell Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 LOL! Nope - there's a nice picture on Dave's site here: http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/DVAndrews/capmount.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 Dave - how do you remove the distributor spigot? Does it just pull out? Anything to be wary of? I've got one in that head you sold me - I don't need it... I thought about fitting a comedy propeller to it to aid cooling, but I suspect selling it to someone else for a few quid is a better bet Project Scope-Creep is underway... Alcester Racing 7's Equipe - 🙆🏻™ Alcester-Racing-Sevens.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nifty Posted January 18, 2005 Author Share Posted January 18, 2005 Thanks for all your replies. This engine is going to be stripped down and rebuilt whilst I still run the 1400 SS in the car. However, a relatively simple job of moving the distributor from one engine to the other isn't going to put my car out of action for weeks and is therefore acceptable to the plan. Oily, Once I've taken delivery of the engine and stripped it down I'll have to pay you a visit for your opinion and some options. I've shelved the idea of putting verniers on the 1400 now because I'll be spending this money on the 1600. See you in the spring I hope. Now off to Cambridge to talk 7s *thumbup* Keep off the straight and narrow 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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