Billyboy Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 Although much deliberation has taken place about what power unit I should go for! Fancying the 2.0L Duratec power unit for all the obvious reasons. I have had some resistance from insurance companies specialising in 7's in Insuring a first time owner of a Se7en with 180 BHP or so.........Duratec engine installed... The feed back is stay on the stock 140 bhp 1.8 K series or less (Over this BHP is going to be expensive to insure SIR!) OR in other words keep to a CC Standard product? As we know what that is.......and do not make it too powerfull to start SIR! Plus there is no finance options from CC if you go the Duratec route! I am annoyed at CC a little as they have said the Cylinder Head Problem is NOT A PROBLEM when the K series motor is fitted in a Se7en as it does not suffer the same cooling / failure problems as it does in the standard Rover/MG/LAND ROVER built vehicles. This being one of the main reasons I do not like the rover power plant!!!! at all....Well that and it being ROVER... After looking at the posts on this site that would be UNTRUE if this club site is a good representation of the amount of Se7en owners out there? Bill Edited by - billyboy on 30 Dec 2004 16:56:38 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Howe Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 The K series head gasket problem relates to the engine, not the car that it is fitted in! That said, if you have a K engine with the improved head gasket (see DVAndrews for a source) then you should have no problem. If you have a choice, then go the Duratec route as it is a more modern power source. JH Deliveries by Saffron, the yellow 222bhp Sausage delivery machine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billyboy Posted December 30, 2004 Author Share Posted December 30, 2004 JH - That is what I said to CC - They reply being its an overheating problem that causes the failure Hence the Engines application was sited as the deficiency NOT the engine its self.......A big fat Fib.......it would seem I want to go the duratec route But Insurance is a problem.......it would seem. bill - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mav Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 Since MG / Rover ditched the plastic dowels, and use an uprated gasket as std now there have been very few failures reported on this forum... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeE Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 Eggar Lawson (and others I presume) will rate the car based on power and value. So my R400 230bhp Duratec is rated as an R500 and the premium reflects this......... Surely Caterham will do finance on a kit (i.e complete car minus engine/gearbox)? R400 Duratec 230bhp Build Pictures here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david nelson Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 Your post is not that clear to me but I have had a hand gasket go on my k series because someone had not checked/dune up the clip round one of the hoses and the engine over heated due to no water. I did 42K in that 7 and it was as good/better than any other car I have had. Head gaskets seem to be the thing to go on most of my cars mini,AX GT, 205. My current 1.8 K has done 6k and no problems todate. I think that the head gasket issue in the 7 is not seen in great numbers as CC are saying. There might be a diffrence between high powered k series and the low 140 bhp but I have no experance of this so am unable to comment. I am sure some people will tell you the K is old, it blows head gaskets all the time and should never have gone into production. good luck David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonbell Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 My insurers only ever ask what size the engine is................they have never ask me what power that engine is producing Simon Bell - Caterham 7 Duratec R I`ve seen the future.....and it`s powered by duratec Check out the website here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanB Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 According to DVA the main cause of HG failure is the tolerance of the liner. This should protrude 4 thou IIRC above the block at cold. If it is lower and particularly below the block level, then HG problems may result. Plus of course failures caused by gross overheating due to coolant loss! I have been advised by both DVA and CC to fit a lower temperature thermostat and fan switch to minimise the rosk of overheating on a tuned engine. Which I have done. IMHO the K series is a superb piece of design let down by cheapo production engineering. That is not CC's fault. They could, I suppose, have insisted on tighter tolerances, but at what cost? We can all justify our own purcahses I know, but I'm hapy with the K in my 7. If I destroy it then I would seriously consider another K, or the brilliant new V8 if funds permitted, ahead of the Duratec. If you want to know more about the K-series, talk to DVA is my suggestion. Just my 2ps worth. Alan B Aztec Orange Superlight+ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Bees Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 Incidences of K-series head gasket failure in Caterhams is far far lower than in MGFs & Freelanders. Look at all the Caterham race cars running K-series... Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 I've not had a HG problem in the 17k miles I've put on the car since purchase 18 months ago - the car was ex-Academy and I've taken it on track a number of times - so it's done several hundred 'racing' miles without any issue. There are a whole bunch of reasons for HG failure - catastrophic cooling failure, plastic-dowels in 'early' engines, excessive vibration with aftermarket cranks/flywheels etc. etc. - but I see this as mainly affecting older k's and those that have been unsympathetically upgraded. There *is* more than an element of truth in the assertion that the application (Elise, Freelander, MGF) can influence the HG-failure rate and that the Caterham is relatively immune to these problems (caused in the Elise's case by the huge length of cooling pipe runs and in the Freelanders case by school-run mums caning the (heavy) car from cold). I'm not losing sleep over it. Project Scope-Creep is underway... Alcester Racing 7's Equipe - 🙆🏻™ Alcester-Racing-Sevens.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Walker Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 Makes me laugh all this worry about K head gasket failure. If it fails so what its not the end of the world the gasket costs less than £30 and takes less than 4 hours to change. At the worst if you carried on running and warped the head a skim should fix the problem again under £30. If all else fails you can get a replacement engiine for peanuts from a breaker. So what is there to be worried about, I recon we should all count our blessings for such a cheap powerplant that can be made powerfull easily and is reliable. There is no doubt that the Duratec will yeald more power, I am currently building a complete new car with a tuned 2.3L installed but a word of warning the Duratec is not a cheap option and will be outside most peoples budgets , especially those who are worried about a £30 head gasket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F355GTS Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 Rob With respect assuming you don't have the skill to remove the engine/ strip the head yourself then you are into serious money for a HG failure >£500 just for a head strip, skim and rebuild in my experience (Dave Andrews Prices) let alone getitng it out of the car and refititng the engine when rebuilt, much more if the head needs replacing as it's already been skimmed too many times before (£1500 - Minister Prices) Bill rather than compromise have you talked to MSM insurance, they don't refer to engine power but do ask size I pay about £250 a year but I'm an old git although many on here will be paying similar money for insurance As for finance there are many people who will lend you money much cheaper than a car manufacturer scheme, if you want some numbers give me a shout Oh and FWIW on my K Series I had new liners to cure height problem, steel dowels, new heads, revised gaskets etc etc and the HG's still failed Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 Mark - MSM aren't *that* hung up on power, I'll admit - but when I informed them of this winters' engine upgrade (1.6-1.8), the quotation was discussed in terms of approximate power... ...having said that, an extra 2.5k miles *and* the engine upgrade hiked my insurance up by a whole £26 with them... Project Scope-Creep is underway... Alcester Racing 7's Equipe - 🙆🏻™ Alcester-Racing-Sevens.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeE Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 I'm paying £430/year R400 Duratec 230bhp Build Pictures here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F355GTS Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 Mike as I said I'm an old git 😳 Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Youngbutnotslow Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 Hi Billyboy, Like Myles my car is ex academy that was raced in grads after that. It has 8k ish miles on the clock and I use it almost exclusively on the track. I let my son drive the car (but he refers to it as sharing) on these days so we run back to back sessions where it basically gets the nuts screwed off it for probably an hour at a time. So far no issues what so ever. I know this as it has the original HG as the engine seals are still in place. I agree. Don’t worry about it!! As for the insurance what they are also concerned about is your experience of driving these sorts of cars. They get nervous about this in just the same way as they would for any other powerful car. That’s why they rate cars according to their performance and your age. (In a previous life I was part of the senior management for a major insurer and I am currently the CEO of a group of insurance brokers) One sure way to help reduce cost is to take some instruction so that you can demonstrate that you know what you are doing. There are several recognised courses and I would suggest that you do a search to find them. Cost is a relative issue but do compare it to what you would pay for your average tin top. My wife runs an Astra Turbo convertible and pays £305pa I also have a 3ltr Spider (breathed on by Autodelta) that I pay £468pa for so my Cat at £195 is tremendous value. With the engine mods happening in 10 days time I expect this to go up. But even if it went up by 50% is still cheap! Edited as I'm Oldbutnotslow - I forgot to change the profile from my sons. Age does that to you!!!!! Matt - Son of Oldbutnotslow here Edited by - Youngbutnotslow on 31 Dec 2004 09:24:18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Walker Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 F355GTS, If an owner never trys to repair his own engines he will never gain the skills or discover that its not that difficult. Head Gasket worriers should purchase a Haynes manual on the Rover 200 it will guide them through the repairs. Get stuck in and have a go save yourself some dough! I have run with the K series in my sevens since 1997 the cars have been used on track and road. My current engine is a home built all steel 1.8K producing more power than an R500 I have never had any problems with head gaskets. Rob Edited by - Rob Walker on 31 Dec 2004 09:42:26 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonbell Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 This duratec is the first engine I have worked on......albeit with help from a few friends. It really isn`t that difficult if you are careful and methodical about how you go about it. Now considering trailing the engine out of the Volvo to give it an overhaul .......well maybe not just yet Simon Bell - Caterham 7 Duratec R I`ve seen the future.....and it`s powered by duratec Check out the website here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petrolhead Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 I'm now with Footman James again coz when I moved from the SL to the R500 Eggar Lawson wanted a lot more. Footman James base their quote only on engine size R500 no 65 😬 I am after a pair of half doors and an QR aero screen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 Bill, I insured (my first) 160bhp Zetec 7 last year with Adrian Flux for £400 which included unlimited track day cover. I'm a youngster too at 33 ;- ) I didnt consider that expensive? Mind you, renewal is due soon! Its not the days in your life ..........But the LIFE in your days!! ;0)) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billyboy Posted December 31, 2004 Author Share Posted December 31, 2004 F355GTS and others thanks for the posts. After 10 years away from the motor trade I may have got a little soft and I would hate to do ANY work on my tin top plus its under warrenty anyway... I may have to buy a Se7en with a K as I am having more difficulty in gaining a reasonable quote for insurance with a 2.0l duratec Who knows maybe I TOO can get to like the K like many have on here! Bill Edited by - Billyboy on 31 Dec 2004 19:38:36 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dartmoor7 Posted January 1, 2005 Share Posted January 1, 2005 I agre with Rob, I have experience of two K-engined cars, a 1992 Metro GTI 16V and my 1994 1.4 SS. The Metro did 96,000 without HG problems and my 7 has done 36,000 so far without problem. I rev the hell out of my engines all the time but I ensure they are properly serviced. Jerry Parker L7 SVN 1.4 Supersport Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now