Steve Robinson Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 Have been watching the club DVD this morning (fantastic work Nick ) and it made me realise that others seem to spin more than me. So far in all the events I have done (about 10 in total I think) I have never lost the car, which makes me think that you lot are pushing closer to the limit than I must be. Question is, should I keep doing what I have been and try to refine more or try to push closer to the limits and accept a few offs in some of my runs??? Views on how you all approach this would be welcome. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
se7enmad Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 Steve, I do not know you so maybe forgive me if the comments are vague. Not losing the car means that you are either not pushing the car enough or that you good enough to keep the car on track in all conditions. However good one is there is always room for improvement. The question is, should you thrash yourself and the car in the quest for a better time? How far off are you from the rest of the class in which you sprint. If there is only a small difference then as you say then you just have to refine your present style. If not, then you have to analyse the situation further. It may not only be due to your own efforts but on how you and your car perform together. My approach is to watch the opponents over and over again. Good that you have a DVD to help you. If not sometimes it helps to miss an event and go watch or take up marshalling for a day. It teaches you lots. Hope this helps. Antonella 1998 Caterham Classic my site heremore photos here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Robinson Posted December 18, 2004 Author Share Posted December 18, 2004 Antonella, thanks for the reply. In class 3 I need about 3/4 second to 1 second improvement to be challenging towards the top of the class - albeit still someway behind Dave McFarlane. I typically finish between 5th and 8th in my 1700 X-flow Live axle just behind the superlight boys. I wouldn't class myself as an awesome driver which is why I feel my lack of spins and offs is more down to not pushing hard enough rather than raw talent. Interesting watching the level of commitment that Adam Hay has - seems to be right on the edge a lot of the time, much more so than me that's for sure. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
se7enmad Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 Again a vague reply as I really can't value the situation objectively but getting close to the superlights in a live axle in a sprint is pretty ok. I'd concentrate on launch as that is where you have the edge on the de dion cars but that is all I can tell you not knowing what the situation really is. Sorry. If you need any inspiration get to watch sennas' lap at monaco. (The clip has been mentioned here many a time) At the end he gives a good explanation of what the limit is... 😬 Antonella 1998 Caterham Classic my site heremore photos here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver 21 Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 YES *thumbup* 😬 😬 😬 Graham Competition Secretary 2005 Speed Championship - 12 Events and Growing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Richard Price Posted December 18, 2004 Area Representative Share Posted December 18, 2004 Steve, Yes, you should push harder ❗ Remember, Paddock corner at Curborough SHOULD BE taken without a lift in your car 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david nelson Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 Steve The simple answer is NO. 😬 OK lets try to be objective Just looking at the results from Cub 2 Rob 63.16, you. 63.33 me 63.51 I know my fastest run had a big lock up becouse i was trying/pushing to hard. Having a look at the 62ft times, you were the slowest of the three of us. This was one of my problems at the begining of the year but slowly improved. Top speed was 2mph down on Rob and I. Well I know this is not looking at the top 3, we all need to increase speed to catch them but You are on drums at the back, so braking is not going to be as good as discs all round. Can you play with the compound of the pads? this might help. Back to the question, If you push harder will you be slower? I pushed at Loton and you can see what happend on the DVD. Also have a look at MIRA span there as well, and at Harewood. Next year my aim is to be quicker, by being smother and geting the apexs. The DVD shows that the lines are important. I have looked at Adam's and my run at Wiscombe side by side and there is not much in it but the last right hander i had a better line and got the power on sooner. As you know, I am no expert and am sure someone will come along and say I am talking out of my 🙆🏻, Its just what I think. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irrelevant Posted December 19, 2004 Share Posted December 19, 2004 I don't think starts are so important - you might save a couple of tenths but not a couple of seconds. IMO, the most important thing is having the car on a suitable line. Then all you have to do is drive the line quickly As far as the driving quickly bit goes, I'd say braking is mega important so you maintain a high corner speed. Decent power for good acceleration is least important. That's why good drivers can go so quick in low powered, good handling cars - e.g. Peter C. Obviously this opinion is not based on what I do, more on what I observe of others. I think you can learn loads by watching the fast drivers and copying them. I've also started using braking points for each bend rather than driving on instinct which always used to get me in trouble 😳 With regards to 'pushing' and spinning/going off; IMO, if you're on a good line and using braking points, on most single bends if you push a braking point too far, you'll probably just miss as apex(unless you brake far too late, in which case you'll be off) - result, no damage done. If you go too fast through a single bend, chances are you will spin on the track - result, no damage done. The places to be careful when pushing are winding/up/down complex bends where you're more likely to flow into a curve at too high a speed. This is less likely to result in a spin and you're more likely to slide off at a fair speed - result, who knows.....The bottom two thirds of Wiscombe is like this and it's very rewarding to drive well. Steve Robinson: Have you video'd yourself driving? I find my videos very useful as an analysis tool. David - I messed up the last right hander because I braked too late, went off line, and had to spin it round as there was no space. I thought I'd screwed the run up as I (like you) also had understeer on the first left hander. Still, it wasn't a bad time on 1A tyres. No longer after a 3.14 diff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david nelson Posted December 19, 2004 Share Posted December 19, 2004 Adam Yes your times were good with 1a tyres (this was not a dig at your driving) If you work out the overal scores for this year and if there was a novice trophy you would have won. I am planning to look at the two of use at Loton we upto the point I fell off as I hope it will tell me something. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Robinson Posted December 19, 2004 Author Share Posted December 19, 2004 Interesting views guys. Adam - no I haven't videoed myself. Would love to get a bullet cam installed for next season but my camera hasn't got the right connections so would mean buying a new one, and there is no budget for that unfortunately. Am thinking of spending some money on training me rather than on upgrading the car, I reckon pound for pound that is probably where the best savings are. Still suspect I'm not driving close enough to my limits however... Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david nelson Posted December 19, 2004 Share Posted December 19, 2004 Steve With the vidio cam just clamp the camara to the car no need for a bullet cam. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irrelevant Posted December 19, 2004 Share Posted December 19, 2004 Steve Robinson: I bolt my big-old camcorder to the roll bar and it gives a great picture. The mount is a simple home made jobbie that cost nowt. An external mic is important if you want good sound. The important thing is to see what you're doing though if the primary objective is driving analysis. David Nelson: YHM No longer after a 3.14 diff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Robinson Posted December 19, 2004 Author Share Posted December 19, 2004 Hadn't thought of simply mounting the camera- Having it sat up in the air flow will give me another excuse if I don't go quicker next year as well 😬 Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmar Posted December 19, 2004 Share Posted December 19, 2004 think of the down force steve 😬 but more on topic - when I have tried harder I seem to go too far and make a mess of it, however in my experience the smooth the better only goes to a certain point and then there is a fine line between being fast and over agressive and messing up... being more aggressive comes with the risk of making a total mess of it. So if you believe in the mantra to finish first , first you have to finish bla bla then I would go with the smooth POV on a seperate note , I think towards the end of last year you where getting to grips with the car more and you times where getting more and more impressive. I think the best way forward is to get a test day and some data logging and go from there, maybe with some video built in.... rob PS you could just buy grigsbies engine and be done with it 😬 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgrigsby Posted December 19, 2004 Share Posted December 19, 2004 It's a difficult one to answer this, there seem to be lots of different styles but the general consensus seems to be somebody on the limit but tidy will be the quickest. Having said that it will depend on the car set-up I'm usually on or over the limit but not necessarily the tidiest but that seems to work well for my car, when Rob M lent me his car for Llandow I was on/over the limit then, but suffered with oversteer which Rob has since been able to cure. I guess it's what you feel happy with, I'm completly happy with the car facing 90 degrees to the track but it's not everyones cup of tea 😬 😬 😬 I've got a Curborough video of me in an SLR from the year before last which is quite entertaining if you want to see over the limit. Even Ali (the car owner) said the car seemed a lot happy than when I tried to be tidy in the earlier runs! it also turned out to be my quickest run of the day. Rob G www.SpeedySeven.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kipper Jnr Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 Steve, being in class 1 gives me chance to watch the class 3 boys run through. Apart from the differences in power one of the BIG differences in drivers is the amount of speed carried through the corner especially on entry. As you have a less powered car than some you will be best to concentrate on carrying momentum through one series of corners to the next rather than the point and shoot technique. Your best bet is to get yourself on an airfield day push, find a increased speed you are comfortable with and then drive at that speed in a sprint, see where you finish then repeat until winning 😬 Robert Herring RobH@grandprixracewear.com GPR Direct Motorsport Equipment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Williams Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 Hi Steve Spinning is the result of a mistake, I wouldn’t beat yourself up over it some of your times last year were very good. I’ve only done 12 events but have managed 3 ‘offs’ the most spectacular of which you witnessed at Loton this year, the other 2 were very small and rather insignificant but they were all mistakes. All of them have been in the first timed run which probably indicates that ‘it’s all in the mind’ and fortunately none have resulted in any damage to the car. For what it’s worth I always aim to drive the run as smoothly as possible and concentrate on carrying as much speed into corners as possible without compromising the apex and therefore the exit speed. I find I can’t think about anymore than that so don’t bother and just focus on the entry everything else seems to take care of itself. I once tried to drive Curborough without any aggression at all and dropped 2 seconds, but having said that it’s very easy to be over aggressive at Curborough miss every apex and still loose 2 seconds. The balancing act is the difficult bit particularly somewhere tight and without any trees to distract you and that’s part of the appeal. Why don’t you stick your old camcorder on the car and arrange a days testing for us all. Adrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted December 24, 2004 Share Posted December 24, 2004 Hi Steve-I always try and keep it as smooth as possible cause smooth is quicker! look at fastest time at Mira on DVD if you need proof-very unexciting I know!! Looks like your speed is building nicely anyway mate(took me four seasons to get up to speed!). '......in yer bike!' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Robinson Posted December 24, 2004 Author Share Posted December 24, 2004 Cheers for all the positive comments. Adrian, I will try and get a Curborough date booked in April for some testing. Think I may make it for just me and anyone from classes 1,2,4,5 & 6 though 😬 Have a great Christmas all and I look forward to seeing you all in 2005 Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Durrant Posted December 24, 2004 Share Posted December 24, 2004 Steve I agree with Brodie that keeping it as smooth as pssible whilst being as close to the limit is the key to a quick time, not easy but with practice it will come. I also recommend that you consider tuition as I feel that last year this was the biggest contributing factor to my improvement and class win. The use of video also has some benefit when trying to analyse where and how you can improve. Good luck in 2005 and I for one would be interested in joining you for a days testing at Curborough a venue where I know I can improve Mark D Su77on Se7ens Considering my options for 2005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted December 26, 2004 Share Posted December 26, 2004 I ll come too if there's a space! Keep in touch Steve.Should be a freestyle Duratec to get to grips with by then? Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Kipper Posted December 26, 2004 Share Posted December 26, 2004 Steve Count me in for Curborough if you are looking for an idea of numbers 😬 Kipper Fun is not a straight line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Richard Price Posted December 26, 2004 Area Representative Share Posted December 26, 2004 Steve, If you get Curborough for a day in April that suits my work schedule, Can I join your day? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david nelson Posted December 26, 2004 Share Posted December 26, 2004 Steve can i come along to 🤔 I have not decided what class I will be in next year as you can forget about your calss 3 rule 😬 happy Christmas and fast sprinting in 2005 David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
se7enmad Posted December 26, 2004 Share Posted December 26, 2004 would you please put me down as an interested? sorry that I can't commit to more at the moment. Just please keep me informed if you can. Antonella 1998 Caterham Classic my site heremore photos here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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